Hose Draggers & Donut Lords

In this episode, we interview Josh Mader, who has 18 years of experience in the fire service and currently serves as a chaplain. We discuss the importance of maintaining physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual well-being in the demanding profession of first responders. Josh shares some funny and awkward stories from his experiences on the job. The conversation covers various topics related to the experiences and challenges faced by first responders, particularly firefighters and law enforcement officers. In addition, we discuss the differences between the two professions, the emotional toll of the job, the importance of mental health and support systems, and the role of faith in coping with the difficulties. The conversation emphasizes the need for open communication, understanding, and education within the first responder community and their families.

Takeaways

• Maintaining physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual well-being is crucial in the first responder community.
• Having a support system, such as a church community, can help first responders cope with the challenges they face.
• It is important for first responders to have a support system and to be able to talk about their experiences and emotions with their families and colleagues.
• Faith can play a significant role in helping first responders cope with the challenges they face, providing them with hope, strength, and a sense of purpose.
• Open communication, understanding, and education within the first responder community and their families are crucial in addressing mental health issues and providing support.

 Fire Rescue Support  

Transcript

Critical Aspects Podcast (00:01.165)

Welcome back to Critical Aspects of Law Enforcement. I'm your host, Vernon Phillips. And today we've got a special guest for you. And it's kind of funny because we say welcome back to Critical Aspects of Law Enforcement. our guest today, they work closely with law enforcement, but he's not in law enforcement. But today we've got Josh Mader on here. And I'm just going turn it over to him real quick and let him explain who he is, what he does, and just a little bit about himself, his background. And then we're going to jump into some

Josh Mader (00:29.051)

Okay.

Critical Aspects Podcast (00:30.957)

conversations and hopefully this won't be a train wreck and crashing bird but we'll see.

Josh Mader (00:36.295)

Probably, who knows? Yeah. Yeah. So, my name is Josh Mader. I've been with Marion County Fire Rescue since 2006. I started as a firefighter EMT right out of high school. Then went and got my medic after a year or so, and then was on an ambulance for a while. And then got my driver and drove for a long time as a driver engineer. went on the hazmat team, so my hazmat tech.

So I did all that stuff with our special ops guys. then I decided to step away and run my business. And then I immediately came right back as kind of like a pseudo chaplain kind of thing, just cause I've always been, you know, the guy that everybody liked and I was just known as a good Christian kid. So that's kind of been in that's about 10 years ago now. So then that's 18 years total in the service.

Critical Aspects Podcast (01:33.081)

So you've spent 18 years in the fire service.

Josh Mader (01:37.223)

That's correct. Yeah. 18 years total between on the line and then as a, as a chaplain type deal. Yeah.

Critical Aspects Podcast (01:44.183)

Okay, so I mean obviously being in fire rescue, being a fireman, then also being a chaplain for now fire rescue, that takes a toll on individual person, it takes a toll on you. So how do you maintain just your overall physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual well -being in that regard to just where you're at right now?

Josh Mader (02:11.775)

well, you know, it's, I think one of the most important things is, is having a good home church. you know, I grew up in the church, and you know, having that, that good, you know, group of people that you can go to, you know, cause where's the chaplain go when the chaplain struggles, you know, finding a good church home and good guides that you could talk to to kind of help you get through. Sorry, a lot of the stuff that, you know, that we go through as chaplains, but, I'm not as physical as I used to be it's just, have three little baby, three little kids and, know, I probably no excuse, but I got the old dad bod thing going on, you know? but apparently I, I guess that's the, Hey, you know,

Critical Aspects Podcast (02:50.787)

Some people like the dad bod. I mean, I personally don't like your dad bod. but, but he does. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, that's okay. I'm completely comfortable with that transaction there, so.

Josh Mader (02:59.673)

Well, it is what it is. Yeah. Well, I would say the same. Yeah, for you. Yeah. You're making me sick. Yeah. Yeah.

That's good. That's good. That's good.

Critical Aspects Podcast (03:14.691)

So yeah, that keeps you busy. mean, having kids, running a business, doing your ministry, that keeps you busy. So I understand that, mean, but actually being plugged into a church home, making sure that you are getting that aspect taken care of, I that is a huge important factor. And we often talk about this on the show is that I don't know how individuals in the first responder profession who don't have faith actually really deal well with the stuff that they see and and come in contact with. But we know historically that they deal with it with negative coping strategies and they don't deal with it in the healthiest way. Or they just really focus in on one specific area. You know, like they're they get really heavy into the physical aspect of it, right? Trying to exert a lot of those emotions with physical exercise, which is a

Josh Mader (04:04.007)

Absolutely. Yep.

Critical Aspects Podcast (04:09.911)

That is a good technique, right? That is a good coping mechanisms, but that's not the only coping mechanism. So I'm glad that you share that plug in there about having that community, that church home, because that's outside of the profession. And that's something we want to encourage, right, is for first responders to get plugged in somewhere outside of the profession with other people who don't think the same as you.

Josh Mader (04:25.926)

Mm -hmm.

Critical Aspects Podcast (04:38.077)

It's a you you're not going to get together and talk shop even though sometimes that can be therapeutic but then often that generally turns into a bashing a bashing sesh of you know Supervisors the job current, you know policies and procedures and all that but So why is it important for you to make sure you're plugging into that community aspect the church aspect?

Josh Mader (04:51.682)

Right, right.

Josh Mader (05:02.311)

Well, like I kind of, like I said before, you know, it's, it's good to have other people that, like you said, are not a hundred, they're not in this world in this realm that can kind of take a 30 ,000 foot view of, of your situation, you know, as a specific call or a specific issue you're having with somebody at work. and just kind of bounce ideas off of other people, you know, just seeking, you know, godly wisdom, you know, about situations and issues and whatnot.

Yeah, I just I find it having a good church a good biblical Bible based church You're not just a big, you know mega church that there's 20 ,000 people Wow that anyway, that's just my opinion but you know having a good Bible based church that is they use the Bible to To teach out of you know, what a crazy concept kind of thing These days, you know, what a crazy concept but just a good Bible based church just Yeah, that's that's basically what I think you need

You know, and it's a lot of these firemen and stuff that aren't, that don't grow up in the church, don't have a church. You know, it's tough, you know, and that's what I'm trying to figure out with a lot of these guys is, know, what do you do? You know how can I help you do something, but you know, what do you do typically to help yourself kind of thing, you know?

Critical Aspects Podcast (06:23.203)

Yeah, so when you look back over the time you've spent in just the fire rescue service in that area.

What is, if you wanna share, what is one of the most significant calls that you remember? And then how did you get on the other side of that?

Josh Mader (06:41.319)

You know, I figured these questions, people ask these questions all the time, you what's the worst call you've ever seen, you know, and...

Critical Aspects Podcast (06:48.729)

it in before you I wanna I kinda just touch on that cuz I've had people say to me before like other people who do your pockets are like like what do you ask a question you know we hate me and ask a question I said I know I said but but I said I know that most the time like you hate that question cuz you like are you they do people just wanna hear these crazy stories but but you know for me it's very strategic in the fact that

Josh Mader (07:01.037)

I don't hate it, yeah.

Josh Mader (07:08.717)

Hahaha

Critical Aspects Podcast (07:14.687)

If we can talk about it, right, and we can draw that out and we get other people willing to say, hey, yeah, this was the worst call. This is how it, you know, it impacted me. This is what I did, or this is what I'm, this is what I'm doing. Then it sparks that conversation and it gets others in the first responder community to be more willing to talk about a significant call that maybe they're dealing with that historically we don't generally talk about, right? We, push it down. We, we,

We try to ignore it, we try to act like it's not there. But yeah, it's kind of funny because you're like, it's definitely a regular community question that I get like, hey, so what's the worst call you've ever been on? But anyway.

Josh Mader (07:55.42)

Hey, yeah.

Josh Mader (08:02.215)

Yeah. I mean, well, I tell you, yeah, like my, the, the first one that always comes to mind when everybody asks that is the first day it was July or January 1st, 2013 or something, 2012, 2013, I was on it. I driving engine 16, which is in shady. and we got a call for a, some of that, you know, allegedly got hit by a train quote unquote kind of deal. I'm not going to say where it was because anyway, so we go there, we go to the top of the hill.

And they're like, yeah, there's nobody, you know, and we see a guy walking down the tracks. We're like, okay, that's just, you know, then the guy starts pointing. We're like, so we looked down and sure enough, there's a person on the railroad tracks and the train had just come over that, that, that, that, that, that, all the way over him. Person was alive. Hey, you know, times three knew what happened. It was probably a 60 foot drop. the bad part is it was a kid. It was a young, was a young teenager.

Critical Aspects Podcast (08:59.769)

Mmm.

Josh Mader (09:02.555)

you know, didn't have any kids at the time. but you know, that was just, you instantly go into work mode. You're like, my goodness, this is a, I don't want to say the age or whatever. Yeah. It was like, it was a teenager. and then I just remember working on the kid and looking up and his, his mother was screaming from the top of the, of the, the bridge, just that death scream, you know, that scream that.

Critical Aspects Podcast (09:31.214)

Yeah.

Josh Mader (09:31.801)

Anyway, so it's just one of those things where, you know, that is always stuck in my mind. Every time I go over this specific area, you know, I kind of instantly think of it. I don't dwell on it or anything like that, but I always think of it. Then all these, you know, that was when I was on the line, but as chaplain, you know, I go to all the bad stuff. That's what we do. If somebody passes away in a car accident or in a fire or just a structure fire or whatever the case may be, typically that's what we go to.

So there was a time in the beginning of when I was kind of getting my feet wet with the chaplaincy, I had three or four signal sevens on the same stretch of road in my old zone, like three days in a row. There were all people hit by vehicle in the same thing. And I was just like,

I haven't seen this much death in my 10 years on the line. All of a sudden in three days, I've seen, you know, three people dead on 441, you know, kind of thing. that was kind of those things like, okay, I got to take a step back. You know, I got to learn that I don't have to see the bodies if I don't need to. Are you what I mean? Like that's not my job anymore. You know, as a, as a fireman and as you know, it's just like that gore thing. You want to see it.

But at some point you're like, you know what, if I don't need to see a body anymore, I'm not going to look at it. I'm not going to help the crews cut the people out of the car. There's no benefit to me whatsoever or them. You know, that's just something that took me a while to learn, you know, but that's kind of where, you know, that's what I, you know, I just kind of been my thing is if I don't need to see the body, I don't see him. It doesn't mean anything. I don't need to see it anymore. Sometimes you have to, which is unfortunately,

Critical Aspects Podcast (11:16.771)

Yeah. Yeah.

Josh Mader (11:22.001)

But lot of that, know, SO has to do, we have to do, you know, it's a part of the job and I get that, but, you know, sometimes there's no reason to give yourself any sort of extra, you know, traumatic, if you don't have to kind of deal.

Critical Aspects Podcast (11:34.399)

Yeah. So what do you do personally to kind of decompress from that?

Josh Mader (11:41.947)

Well, a lot of times, you know, what I do is I talk to the guys at the scene typically. Because, I know most of the guys being around and I thank God that I'm more resilient than, well, I think I'm more resilient than some other folks, you know, just of all the stuff that I've seen and I don't ever really take it home with me kind of thing. But a lot of, for me, it's just talking with the guys, joking around with them, screwing around with them.

know, Firebender, we are very...

Josh Mader (12:15.633)

I don't know what, we're, anyway, but like we're, we have really bad humor kind of thing, you know? And, you know, we laugh, I've got, right, but it's just that bad humor of, know, we make fun of something on the side of the interstate with a dead body over here, but that's how we cope with it. We, you know, we make fun of something, but again, it sounds awful. Dark humor, that's what I'm looking for, dark humor. You know, we have a lot of dark humor.

Critical Aspects Podcast (12:19.769)

I can say so many things, I'm gonna not, I'm not, I'm gonna leave it.

Critical Aspects Podcast (12:37.229)

Yes, it's that dark humor. Yep. Yep.

Josh Mader (12:44.199)

But that's what that does is that gets us laughing and then, know, once the call's over, you know, inch 16, it's not complete available. We're back, man. It's ready for the next call. You know, you don't take it with you. You leave it right there on the side of the road or at that house or at the hospital or whatever you need to do. You know, that's, you know, talking it out with the guys, I think is, is one of the most important things, least right then and there, like a quick little hot wash.

Critical Aspects Podcast (13:10.605)

Yeah, yeah, because it takes it, you it takes that emotional fuse out of it. And, you know, so for anybody who's listening, who doesn't understand what a signal seven is, that's a that's a dead person. No, that's fine. I look, I'm trying to explain it to all three people that listen. OK, so. Yeah, but no, I mean, so but that's thing like law enforcement the same way, right? They have that dark humor to where, you know, you

Josh Mader (13:16.199)

Correct.

Josh Mader (13:22.885)

sorry, go.

Josh Mader (13:30.951)

That's true.

Josh Mader (13:39.215)

yeah.

Critical Aspects Podcast (13:40.537)

You just say really off the wall random things and it sounds super, you know, just like, like you don't care or you know, if somebody actually heard it, probably be super offensive, but it's, it's just kind of that way of coping in the moment, right? Like that's their way of coping in the moment to, kind of remove that emotional fuse. Now, some people don't have the opportunity to do that, right. And it kind of sets and then from there it kind of festers and later on it ends up exploding. and that, know, you deal a lot with that and I deal a lot with that where it's like, you know, now we're kind of dealing with a crisis and.

Josh Mader (13:56.579)

Mm -hmm.

Critical Aspects Podcast (14:21.305)

You probably deal a lot with this yourself, but if somebody comes in crisis, kind of help walk them through it, get them to the other side crisis averted and you don't hear from them again for six months or a year till the next crisis comes around. But yeah, mean, there's definitely that aspect to the first responder community, that dark humor. And we could say all kinds of things.

Josh Mader (14:35.681)

Mm hmm. Right.

Josh Mader (14:49.456)

I do have an example from the sheriff's office.

Critical Aspects Podcast (14:52.299)

I'm sure, I'm sure you do.

Josh Mader (14:54.587)

I got a good one. You want to hear it? It's funny.

Critical Aspects Podcast (14:57.954)

Yeah, as long as it doesn't involve any names or anything.

Josh Mader (15:01.165)

No, no, I don't know the guy's name. no, just we had somebody was dead in the house and somebody had come to pick up the kids to take them to school. It was their mom. The mom was real sick anyway. So there was a deputy used to called Zach Morris. This was years ago. He just cause he looked like Zach Morris from say by the bell, you know, blonde, whatever. So we were just standing outside as I was a brand new medic and the lady comes up in a car like what's, what are you guys doing here? just an issue. Sit you go in in the house.

So she said, can I go inside and pick the kids up? The deputy was like, yeah, sure. Go ahead. Come back out. And she was still laying on the couch, dead in the house. Right. And she comes back and she's like, why didn't you say that she was dead in the house? And the deputy looks at her goes, well, surprise. We were like, all right. Let's rescue 16 where it's not a complete available, you know, just that weird dark humor. Like someone's like, bro, come on, man. You could have said something a little different than well, surprise.

But like I said, I don't remember his name, but it was just.

Critical Aspects Podcast (16:00.377)

No, please don't. There's a lot there. I don't want to know any names. I don't want to know any names because that... I mean, I was more or less thinking, you you respond to, you know, a 34 and somebody taking the top of their head off with a shotgun and you look at their hat rack and you're like, you think they're going to need those? You think they're going to want that hat? I that's that kind of dark humor that that's exactly what it is. So most people are like,

Josh Mader (16:04.167)

That was years and years ago.

Josh Mader (16:23.34)

That's exactly... Yup. yeah, for sure. We can edit that story out, right? We can edit that story out.

Critical Aspects Podcast (16:29.879)

You guys are... you guys are... I know, that's gonna stay in there. We're gonna run that. Because if I... if just for some reason that Zach... Zach Morris is listening, I don't even know who it is, that's kind of funny. I mean, first of all, you're... you're a jerk. Right? But...

Josh Mader (16:35.081)

you

Josh Mader (16:42.481)

I don't either, that's the thing.

Josh Mader (16:49.495)

Right, yeah. I mean, it's funny now, you know? But yeah, it wasn't as funny back then. At least not to the lady.

Critical Aspects Podcast (16:54.329)

I'm just thinking so many things like was it still like an active like crime scene? I mean

Josh Mader (17:03.111)

we had just, we had just called her signal seven and walked out of the house and then some random lady showed up to pick the kids up, which the kids were already gone. So I don't know. I don't know where she didn't get that message from, but I don't know. It was weird. This is one of those weird things that, you know, yeah.

Critical Aspects Podcast (17:14.477)

Huh. That is, that is weird. So to try to, you know, divert the sinking ship, what,

Josh Mader (17:26.215)

We knew it was going to go this way. All right. Sure, sure, yeah.

Critical Aspects Podcast (17:27.609)

yeah, that's why we're going through different names like train wreck, you know What what is one of the most awkward or funniest calls that you've had to deal with?

Josh Mader (17:40.295)

well that one was one, so we got that one out of the way. and then, yeah. And then just bless her heart. There's a lot of elderly people here in Marion County and, you know, it's patients get sick or whatever. And this guy was having a real bad stomach, whatever the case was. And we, he's laying in bed with like our let's get him transported. And we stood this guy up.

Critical Aspects Podcast (17:43.959)

Yep, that's definitely awkward.

Josh Mader (18:08.049)

This is of like, it was an older gentleman, but we stood him up and he just released all of his bowels. And I laugh. I'd like, was, I shouldn't have laughed, but like, it just, it just like, it just kind of struck me funny, you know? So my Lieutenant was standing right in front of me and his wife was standing in the room and I buried my face in the back of my Lieutenant because I was laughing. couldn't, I couldn't stop laughing, you know?

Critical Aspects Podcast (18:19.225)

Ha ha ha!

Josh Mader (18:34.695)

And I was like, let me turn and go into the bathroom so I can stop laughing or so they can't see, but there's a giant mirror. So like, well, I can't go that way. So I literally just buried my face in my lieutenant's back because he's a bigger guy. So nobody could see me, but that was like, why can't I control myself right now? You know, this guy just, I mean, he's embarrassed, I'm sure. But my gosh, man, that guy unloaded in his pants, buddy. And that's just the kind of stuff it's like, why? yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. He like.

Critical Aspects Podcast (18:58.393)

Did he have pants on? Did he have pants on?

Josh Mader (19:03.951)

Yeah, he did. at least that Lisa kind of kept it together. But like I we could could talk for hours on these calls.

Critical Aspects Podcast (19:07.577)

What's yours?

Yes, it was probably, was it like a adult diaper?

Josh Mader (19:15.633)

Probably I would imagine but I tell you buddy. It was like a cow pie son Yeah, and it just it it was yeah, but again, like I said, I that was so many it's so many years ago, It is those are just those awkward calls and those calls that you go on. It's the same people You know every shift all shifts run on the same person that you'll frequent flyers You know, we could talk stories for hours about frequent flyers and y 'all have them just like we do

Critical Aspects Podcast (19:20.523)

UGH!

Josh Mader (19:44.827)

And we're just having like a different aspect. Ours is more the medical side. Y 'all are the crazy people, you know? But that's, that's, mean, I hate to say it, but a lot of times that makes it fun. It's weird for us, you know, it's like those, those funny calls are like, I'm laughing so hard that I got to bury my face in the back of my lieutenant. Cause I don't want the wife to see me laughing. You know what I mean? And it's just, those are, those are, so hard to, you know, I don't know. It's just, it's tough, you know?

Critical Aspects Podcast (19:52.109)

Yeah.

Critical Aspects Podcast (20:06.552)

Yeah.

Critical Aspects Podcast (20:16.153)

Yeah, there's probably a lot of calls where you just like, just want to be 100 % truthful with the individual and like, why are you wasting my time and county money on this nonsense? Like, wait.

Josh Mader (20:23.742)

yeah! gosh...buddy.

Josh Mader (20:33.497)

Yeah, that's been, we've had, yeah.

Critical Aspects Podcast (20:37.869)

Yeah. So, I mean, obviously we know that the first responder profession, it doesn't matter where you work in the first responder field, but we know it's a demanding job. We know there's a lot of pressure to it. You you see a lot of things, you're exposed to a lot of things. Do you think we do a good job with our onboarding and our new recruits kind of setting it up, getting them prepared for what they're going to encounter?

Critical Aspects Podcast (21:05.453)

The old crap in the pants scenario.

Josh Mader (21:05.657)

Yes, now for sure.

Yeah. Well, that, I mean, that just comes with, that's just funny. You can't prepare for somebody going to crap in their pants, you know, but like the, like the mental aspect and all that kind of stuff. at least again, and I only know Marion County, you know, that's that I don't know other departments and whatnot, but even the same with the city of Ocala, but we had Marion County has done such a good job these last decade of, you know, bringing on chaplains.

Critical Aspects Podcast (21:14.211)

Yeah.

Josh Mader (21:39.633)

You know, it's it's rare, you know, and our peer support team and our, know, CISM teams and all this kind of stuff. And, you know, we, we have all these different avenues, all these different tools in the toolbox that you can go to now and they're available for free. Well, yeah, for free with the County. And right when we get our new guys coming in, you know, us as chaplains, we meet with every new hire class coming in. You know, they're very well aware of what we do as chaplains, what the peer support team does, what the mental health counselors does, what they can do. I mean, these days it's night and day different from when I started and probably when you started. I know it's cliche, the suck it up buttercup kind of deal. And that's what it was for years, for years and years and years, man up, just man up and just go to the next call, go to the next call. But I think we're doing a great job now as a department and I think as at least in the state of Florida to really start trying to combat a lot of this, this craziness that we go to, you know, the calls haven't changed, the fires haven't changed, the car wrecks haven't changed, but the people have changed us as firemen have changed. The younger generation is coming in. They're totally different than our generation, you know, and I'm not that on 37, you know, but I started when I was 19, you know, but it's just, it's a, it's a different it's just a different realm these days. And I think that we're doing a good job at least giving them options, not just throwing them out to the wind and say, get a look.

Critical Aspects Podcast (23:17.527)

Yeah, I don't have to agree, especially I mean here, you know, for for where we're at. You know, I think across the board, I think it's getting better, you know, just in the overall community. But, you know, and I'm going to say this and I'm never going to say it again. OK, so write it down, you know, screenshot it, whatever you want to do. But, you know, yeah, the fire rescues for here in our community.

Josh Mader (23:40.391)

You got it.

Critical Aspects Podcast (23:45.501)

You know is is definitely farther ahead than we are but You know, we're we're heavy. We're heavy on your own heels. Okay, so

Josh Mader (23:54.151)

I won't tell you. I love it.

Critical Aspects Podcast (23:59.843)

So, don't, if anybody says that, I heard you say that I will deny it. No, I mean, you guys got a good program, you guys got a lot of resources put in place. And a lot of stuff that we're doing is mirrored after what you guys are doing. So it's just different, we're just applying it differently. But I think in general, yeah, we are,

Josh Mader (24:01.159)

That's good.

Josh Mader (24:07.953)

I didn't hear anything.

Josh Mader (24:11.845)

We do. We really do.

Josh Mader (24:26.803)

Sure, of course, you have to.

Critical Aspects Podcast (24:29.187)

think we are doing better, something that I now am noticing that and I also know, you know, talking with, you know, Chaplain Joe is that making sure that we don't lose the spiritual component in just this overall idea of wellness, right? Taking care of ourselves mentally and emotionally. You know, we in the first responder committee, there's always been a big push, right? Hey, make sure you're taking care of yourself physically. That was always the thing. Hey, make sure you're taking care of yourself physically, being physically fit. then through, would say the last five years, you've really seen a shift with the emotional and mental, like, hey, let's make sure we're taking care of ourselves physically, emotionally and mentally. But I feel like now there's been that shift. So like the spiritual component, I think is kind of, you know, it's kind of taking that backseat. It's kind of tracking behind a little bit. So that's something that I am wanting to kind of

Josh Mader (25:09.07)

yeah, for sure.

Critical Aspects Podcast (25:27.245)

focus more on and make sure that we're still offering viable resources on that front as well. Because the way I look at it is the four areas that I always talk about is the physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual. Those are the four areas that I feel make up the individual person. We all have a claim. We all have a stake in there somewhere. And we want to round out all of those. We don't want to just focus in on one or two.

Josh Mader (25:43.505)

Mm

Critical Aspects Podcast (25:54.969)

None right we want to focus on the entire the entirety the entire person so That's why I want to make sure that we're still plugging that in that's I know that that's definitely something that you guys are Have any it up here in the last you know two years for sure. I mean you know you went from from Joe to How many of there are the you know five all together right or there's four all together okay four?

Josh Mader (25:57.563)

Mm

Josh Mader (26:17.521)

There's no, there's total of four. There's one for each shift. Yeah. So A, B and C shift. Yeah. And then Joe is kind of like the head, kind of the head guru guy. You know, we say, and he hates it, but he's the main chaplain where his, just his assistants, you know, which he hates when we say that. Right. Yeah. He's like, he's the grand pooh paw or whatever they say that, you know, we're just a little young grasshoppers. It's probably not even the right, but yeah, no, but yeah, we, we do his daily driving around and you know,

Critical Aspects Podcast (26:28.025)

He's the Godfather.

Critical Aspects Podcast (26:39.651)

Yeah,

Josh Mader (26:46.587)

But when it ultimately comes down to it, it's like, yeah, his minions. Yeah. My kids love minions. For sure. Yeah. Cause he's, he's set such a great tone for all of us, you know? So it's, yeah.

Critical Aspects Podcast (26:47.517)

Yours made his minions.

Critical Aspects Podcast (27:00.971)

yeah, he definitely sets the standard for, and he would hate this if he hears this, but he's definitely, I think, set the standard for chaplaincy, especially in the first responder community. Yeah. So I think that his new nickname should be Chaplain Joe Godfather.

Josh Mader (27:05.892)

yeah.

Of course he would.

Josh Mader (27:22.117)

That's fine. Chaplain Godfather. I'm cool with that. Well, I'll tell them next time I see them. I think I got a meeting with them. I don't know who knows, yeah. I'll tell them to watch the podcast.

Critical Aspects Podcast (27:24.993)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Critical Aspects Podcast (27:31.001)

He won't he won't like that at all, yeah No, but no he but on a serious note though. He he he's really done an exceptional job with just You know fire rescue support and then also what he's done with the county so but So I mean as we kind of look at you know

Josh Mader (27:40.465)

Probably not. He'll get over it. Yeah, it'll be fine.

Josh Mader (27:48.557)

yeah, without a doubt.

Josh Mader (27:53.412)

Mm

Critical Aspects Podcast (27:57.593)

shifting from the recruits or people coming on, what about those that have 15, 20, 25 years in? What is a piece of advice that you'd give them, those guys that are kind of already into the profession, already kind of steeped in what we know to be the first responder community that a lot of people would refer to as the old salty dogs and the old crusties and things like that.

Josh Mader (28:15.75)

Right.

Josh Mader (28:26.627)

Yeah, that's a great question. and, know, and, you know, me being somewhat in that, you know, that kind of timeframe too, you know, I know those guys, I know those, gals that are in those positions and, know, I, I tell them it's very important, you know, to make sure that the, that the younger guys, you know, know what to do and all this kind of stuff. you know, I, it's, an, it's like a analogy. Somebody told me, I don't remember. told me that, but everybody's got a cup, like a coffee cup.

You know, I was just talking to one of my old lieutenants earlier today. You know, it's like a coffee cup and everybody's cup fills up differently. You know, sometimes it takes five calls. Sometimes it takes 50 years, but at some point it's going to overflow or, know, if you let it overflow. So how do you stop that? How do you stop that overflow? especially, you know, the, more calls that you run, the more deaths that you see in the more dead babies that you see. That's just more to the cup. That just takes a little bit of life out of you. Every single bad call like that so, know, so I, I, I just tell them that, you know, just, you know, again, you know, how do you cope? How do you cope them in the past? You know, what do you do to, you know, to release stress and why play with my kids or whatever? like, well, go home and do that. You know, go home and just relax. You know, don't turn to anything bad. You know, any sort of bad habits, just, you know, like I said, that's, it's a good question. It's hard to, you know, how do you tell somebody with the same amount of years as you, Hey man, you just need to suck it up and, know, so everybody deals with it different, you know, just being there and listening and, know, just saying, Hey, just make sure that you're, you know, being a good example for the young guys, you know, cause they're looking to you for everything and they're going to be coming to you before they come to me. You know, so just, you know, know what to say and know how to, to give wise counsel and wise advice. Cause it's coming. It's going to come at some point. You just, so you got to be ready for it. You know, just be ready for those bad calls and a 19 year old kid who's, you know, just still living with his parents like I was and see a guy with his arms cut off and his torso cut in half. You're like, man, how the heck am I supposed to process this? So you look to the, to the guys who'd have been around and like, I mean, how do you deal with this kind of stuff? You know?

Critical Aspects Podcast (30:40.494)

Yeah, and that's something that I try to encourage like, hey, look, when you need to talk about it, right? To say, to do your job, right? There's a time where you need to absolutely suck it up, right? Get through the call, do what you need to do, handle business. But then afterwards, when you're all standing around, it's okay to say, hey, can we all agree that freaking sucked? Like that was bad. And then when you do that, it gives everybody the opportunity to think, yeah, that was pretty bad.

Josh Mader (30:46.469)

Yeah, absolutely.

Josh Mader (30:53.713)

Mm -hmm. Yep.

Josh Mader (31:04.187)

Mm -hmm.

Critical Aspects Podcast (31:10.009)

That doesn't happen, I mean, it probably happens a lot more with you guys, right? Because you generally, it's a larger group, you know, on the law enforcement side, it's like, might just be one or two people. But what happens, mean, especially with FTO is you get the new person coming in and you know, they respond to a 34 and somebody like takes the top of the head off with a shotgun. They're thinking, holy smokes, how do I deal with this? And.

Josh Mader (31:33.582)

huh.

Josh Mader (31:37.253)

Mm

Critical Aspects Podcast (31:37.337)

FTO doesn't say anything so they don't say anything and so then they just kind of go on like normal but But you know if we would do a better job of you get back to like hey, how you holding up? was that was pretty rough You know my first you know 34 that I went to was pretty rough, and this is what it was you know It's okay to just be like hey That's that's that was messed up, and I think the more we do that then the more it gives people the permission to say Hey, can we just time out real quick and just kind of?

Josh Mader (31:41.425)

Hmm

Josh Mader (31:57.574)

Mm

Critical Aspects Podcast (32:07.641)

pull the emotional fuse out of this. But that's often what we don't do. I mean, that's not what we do and I got to...

Josh Mader (32:12.128)

That's great. That's a great way to put it. Well, like I mean, is the difference between the, it's like a difference between the fire department. And like you said, in the sheriff's office is, you know, we're, we're a team firemen. We're a team. go everywhere together. You guys are solo, you guys ride everywhere on your own. Yeah. So it's a whole lot hard. would imagine a whole lot harder for you guys than it is for us because of that aspect. Like, you know, you run a crazy call and unless you're sergeants with you or something then you're back on the road by yourself. know, once we're getting back in a truck with at least four dudes, three or four dudes, and then we're back to the house and we're hanging out at the house, wait for the next call. You guys are going from street corner to street corner. You know, that's tough. I don't know how you guys do that.

Critical Aspects Podcast (32:52.813)

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Josh Mader (32:56.433)

So it's tough.

Critical Aspects Podcast (32:59.405)

Yeah, and I want to show you something here. I got a little meme that I want to show. Because I think this sums up pretty much everybody in First Responder community just in general. They just, man, this is what they do.

Josh Mader (33:00.405)

yeah.

Josh Mader (33:11.377)

Yeah.

Critical Aspects Podcast (33:22.253)

Give me a second here to pull it up.

Josh Mader (33:25.563)

You

I'm a I'm a lo I always love a good meme.

Josh Mader (33:41.543)

Is that Randy Travis? No, that's not Randy Travis. I know who that is. Okay. okay. Yeah. I know what you're talking about. Yeah.

Critical Aspects Podcast (33:50.417)

All right, let me try to maximize this here.

Josh Mader (33:56.631)

stab you in the neck with a knife.

Josh Mader (34:02.129)

That was just from Step Brothers, isn't it?

Critical Aspects Podcast (34:03.949)

Yep, and most of this conversation here will get...

Critical Aspects Podcast (34:13.069)

It'll go right, I'll just, when I talk about going to the video, I'll just go right to the video, but all right, so.

Josh Mader (34:14.535)

those triggers.

Josh Mader (34:18.488)

Okay, gotcha

Critical Aspects Podcast (34:21.785)

because for us, they won't want to pull it up all the way. All right, so this is what I feel kind of like all first responders do.

Josh Mader (34:34.672)

Yeah.

Josh Mader (34:41.122)

That's true!

That's it, man. That's funny.

Critical Aspects Podcast (34:51.189)

All right, one more time.

Josh Mader (34:52.603)

Yeah, yeah.

Critical Aspects Podcast (35:05.091)

Ha ha ha.

Josh Mader (35:16.133)

That's what happens, buddy. Yeah, that's it. That's funny.

Critical Aspects Podcast (35:17.497)

So it's funny, right? We laugh at that and we laugh at it because we're like, that is so accurate. So I saw that somebody from the SO actually shared that with me and I saw that I'm like, that is hilarious because it's so accurate, but it's also so funny because it's just a great illustration because he's in the hole and he's like, but I'm alive, I'm alive, right? And that's what we do, right?

Josh Mader (35:24.419)

yeah.

Josh Mader (35:43.527)

Right.

Critical Aspects Podcast (35:44.953)

Our emotions are very much still alive, but we're just going to cover them up, but hey 20 years later. They're definitely going to come back Did you notice did you notice who put that out?

Josh Mader (35:49.257)

huh. yeah.

yeah.

Josh Mader (35:56.901)

Yeah, hose draggers.

Critical Aspects Podcast (35:57.579)

at the hose draggers hose draggers so we were gonna we were talking about calling this episode donut lords and hose draggers but

Josh Mader (36:00.859)

Yeah, I saw that,

Josh Mader (36:07.921)

That's right, yeah, We're definitely hose draggers, buddy.

Critical Aspects Podcast (36:11.897)

But I mean that that I think that is historically what we've done So I'm hoping that you know, we're doing better at that because that's what we don't want to happen is You know for you to try to bury everything or the last podcast I I had a gentleman on he talked about putting everything in the closet and he said everyone so he said but then that closet door pops open at the worst time But that's what happens, right? Yeah Yeah And that's the thing so me

Josh Mader (36:21.336)

Mm -hmm, right.

Mm -hmm.

Josh Mader (36:35.424)

Yes, it's kind of just a different analogy with the coffee cup. Yep, that's of course. And it takes that one call. Yeah.

Critical Aspects Podcast (36:43.473)

That puts you over so I mean that's why you constantly whether it's the coffee cup you need to be hey checking checking that that level right Where your capacity is at and then if it's starting to get towards the top hey, okay? I need to empty some of this stuff out. need to you know kind of get rid of some of this and you know like like that, you know not burying stuff not throwing stuff in the closet and You know I often use the the beach ball in the pool analogy where you know every every single

Josh Mader (36:45.809)

Mm -hmm.

Josh Mader (36:52.668)

Break.

Josh Mader (36:58.449)

Sure.

Critical Aspects Podcast (37:12.973)

You critical incident or emotionally charged event, you take a beach ball, right, and you push it under the water. And you get another one, you push it under the water and like, you're just trying to push all these, not allow them to come to the surface, but eventually you get too many beach balls and you can't juggle all of them. You can't hold all of them under, then they all come up at once. So instead of dealing with one at a time. Yeah. So, and you know, but that's what happens.

Josh Mader (37:23.761)

Mm -hmm.

Josh Mader (37:29.413)

Right.

Josh Mader (37:33.095)

huh.

Josh Mader (37:36.666)

Yeah, yeah, then it explodes, right. Yeah, you know, cause it.

Go ahead.

Critical Aspects Podcast (37:46.653)

That's what happens right you you don't say anything because you don't want people to think that you can't handle the job or that you're weak so like hey I'm not gonna say nothing I'm just gonna stow it but then eventually something happens or it all comes out at once and then you you don't have a choice right you have to deal with it and so you're like well don't want anybody think I'm not capable of doing the job but sometimes you create that cycle because you're not willing to deal with

Josh Mader (38:05.169)

Hey. Yeah.

Josh Mader (38:15.664)

yeah.

Critical Aspects Podcast (38:17.335)

The trauma that you're currently struggling with because you don't want it to impact your job. You don't want them to take your gun. You don't want them to put you at a desk. So you're like, hey, I don't want that to happen. But sometimes you create the very thing you don't want to happen because you let things go on for so long that you give no choice. So.

Josh Mader (38:24.035)

Right. You're right.

Mm -hmm.

Josh Mader (38:37.147)

Right. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the, that's the line, you know, that you almost kind of have to, you know, I think you said it's perfect. It's like, you know, I don't want any of my superiors to know that I'm struggling with something because guess what? I'm not going to get that promotion or I'm not going to get, you know, they're going to think I'm weak because I had a problem with a dead baby in a pool. No, that's normal, pal. You know what I mean? Nobody, that should not be normal for anybody. You know, that's a total normal reaction for an event like that.

Critical Aspects Podcast (39:01.977)

Yes, and that yes and for the people for the person that that's like you're like hey Yeah, let's let's have a conversation be

Josh Mader (39:12.485)

We got a problem here. I mean, again, there's, yeah. Right. I mean, there's times and a place to joke around about stuff, but there's some things that you're like, okay, that was a little, that was ill -timed kind of thing. Like there's something else going on with you to say something about something, you know, a particular call. You're like, okay, that's not normal to say that right now. It would be in about six months, but when everybody else is quiet and stoic,

Critical Aspects Podcast (39:27.256)

Yeah.

Josh Mader (39:41.849)

at the hospital and there's a baby in the room because they drowned the, you know, the grandmother found it in the pool or something. That's not a time to joke at all. You know, and that, that would be like a red flag kind of thing for somebody. If somebody would just like totally nonchalant, this is nothing. You've got a problem pal. That's not normal, you know, to act like that.

Critical Aspects Podcast (40:01.025)

No. And I think especially with you and I mean I think if all first responders the pediatric calls are the worst the worst. And even if it's even if you don't have kids you know somebody that has kids it just there's just something it just really I mean that's that's moral injury right. That transgresses our deeply held more beliefs of that's.

Josh Mader (40:10.471)

They're the worst. The worst, the worst, the worst.

Josh Mader (40:20.059)

Mm -hmm.

Josh Mader (40:26.791)

100%. Yep. Yep.

Critical Aspects Podcast (40:29.805)

That's not supposed to happen to a kid, right? That is a hundred percent more injured where you're like, but that's, you know, but that's part of the job is dealing with those calls and.

Josh Mader (40:33.093)

Right. Yep.

Josh Mader (40:38.939)

Yeah, at least.

Critical Aspects Podcast (40:44.835)

So what, as you kind of look at all the resources you guys currently have, what do you think is kind of the missing piece or that missing connection where, hey, we've got all these resources, but we've got individuals that aren't willing to use the resources? What do you think is that missing piece that's not letting that

Josh Mader (40:45.797)

Yeah, I think it's those hard ones.

Josh Mader (41:09.447)

That's the million dollar question.

Critical Aspects Podcast (41:12.503)

That say that drawbridge grow down? Yeah, that's the question. I think that's the question that so many of us are facing now.

Josh Mader (41:16.271)

Yeah, and that's the million dollar question. Yeah, it's like that old saying, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. With the suicides that we've had here in Marion County, I've known several of them personally, and I had no idea, buddy. Not the slightest idea, but it's because they didn't say anything to anybody.

How do you get somebody to talk if they don't want to talk for one thing and if they're past that point? There's no talking them off. You know, and I hate to say it like that, but you know, I think the missing link is how do you get them? What's the magical one that you wait for people will talk about all their problems? I don't know. That's a great question. That's what everybody was asking me when the suicides that we had was that like, you know, how are we going to fix this?

Critical Aspects Podcast (42:09.379)

Yeah, because.

Josh Mader (42:17.499)

You tell me, I don't know. If they don't wanna talk, I can't make them talk. That's the struggle that I think we have.

Critical Aspects Podcast (42:22.029)

Yeah, and that's the thing like you Yeah, you've got the resources there. I mean, you know, we've got resources now, but it's almost like you know, the way I kind look at is It you know, it's it's somebody who who has you know insurrection with inside their own castle walls, right? So you've got your castle, you know, you've got all the protection you have you got your mode around you got your drawbridge but The battle is happening with inside your own castle walls, right?

Josh Mader (42:38.853)

Mm -hmm.

Josh Mader (42:49.443)

Right. Right.

Critical Aspects Podcast (42:49.943)

And you're standing there at the gate at the drawbridge and you've got the ability to lower the drawbridge to let the neighboring kingdom come in and help you deal with the battle that's going on within. Right. But you as the individual you as the person dealing with all that that that stuff that's internal all of your trauma all of your demons you have to be the one to lower your drawbridge and say OK.

Josh Mader (43:04.561)

All right.

Critical Aspects Podcast (43:17.517)

Let me make use of the resources that are right here, that are just outside this wall, this door. It's right here. So it's like, how do you get the person to push that button to lower that drawbridge to give people? And that's the thing. And I think it's getting people understand like, hey, look, there's resources that are here. There's things that are available, but you have to be the one to open that door. Because the battle

Josh Mader (43:21.573)

Right, right. It's not like you gotta really look for them. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yes.

That's it.

Josh Mader (43:43.559)

Yep, 100%.

Critical Aspects Podcast (43:46.925)

The battle is not out here, the battle is in here. Right? And it's in here.

Josh Mader (43:50.501)

It always is. always, yep. It's all right here, buddy. It's always here. It's always personal. It's personal problems that get brought to work. I think personally, that's my kind of opinion on it. know, granted, does it help that we run bad calls? No, but you know, it's personal stuff. Guys dealing like you said with your castle. I love that.

Critical Aspects Podcast (44:04.279)

Yeah, I...

Critical Aspects Podcast (44:10.253)

Yay.

Because you don't separate. So we have this idea that we separate work and home. But we don't. Work bleeds into home, home bleeds into work. They very much intersect, they intertwine, they run into each other. Sometimes if you do really good at managing yourself, you can keep both areas in check. But oftentimes, you're bringing work in.

Josh Mader (44:19.264)

Mm -hmm. Mm -mm. Yeah. Yep.

Critical Aspects Podcast (44:42.465)

You're bringing home life into work, right? And the problems that you have going on at home are impacting your ability to do your job at work or the things that you're dealing with at work come home and you're dumping it onto your family. And that's the thing. That's your social support network. That's that's the that's your first support group is your family. And those are the first people we isolate. Those are the first people we isolate and.

Josh Mader (45:04.474)

Right.

Critical Aspects Podcast (45:11.649)

You know, whether, you know, whether it's your significant other, your spouse, you know, I can't tell you how many times I've heard the significant other of the spouse say, I just want them to talk to me. Why won't they talk?

And it's like, just want to know what's going on. I want to be able to help. I want to be able to understand. Now, are they really going to be able to understand? No, right? Do you want to share every single detail? No, absolutely not. But you can absolutely go in and say, hey, it's been a rough shift. I had to deal with some really, really crappy stuff. I'm probably not going to be super engaged tonight.

But I just want to let you know that it was a rough day. But that gives them the opportunity to say, all right, so it's been one of those days. It's been one of those shifts where they just kind of need a little bit of time to kind of collect their thoughts, kind of work through some stuff. So I'm not going to be like, did you take care of this yet? Hey, did you do this yet?

Josh Mader (46:05.211)

Mm -hmm.

Critical Aspects Podcast (46:21.305)

What about this? You've been gone all day, you've been gone the last 12 hours, 24 hours. You haven't done this, you said you were going do this. Then you get the button heads where it's like... The first responder is saying, you don't understand what I just had to deal with. And then on the other side, the spouse or single mother is like, well you don't ever tell me, so how am I supposed to understand? If you would at least let me in a little bit.

Josh Mader (46:25.286)

Yeah.

Josh Mader (46:34.831)

Yep, that's tough, man.

Josh Mader (46:48.293)

A vicious cycle.

Critical Aspects Podcast (46:49.945)

I wouldn't hit you with, you said you were going to take out the trash two days ago. The trash is still sitting there. But the first responder is still trying to understand, hey, how do I get the trash out of here? Like the stuff that's compiled over the last 12, 24 hours. It's like, hey, I'm trying to take out the trash in the baggage that I've dealt with here. I don't care about the trash in the kitchen. And then that's where we just run into

Josh Mader (46:57.441)

Yeah.

Josh Mader (47:05.55)

Right? Yeah.

Josh Mader (47:13.116)

Right?

Josh Mader (47:18.101)

Do it yourself. Yeah.

Critical Aspects Podcast (47:19.713)

Yeah, that's where we run into issues of communication and marital problems. that's the thing is, know, just kind of I think the biggest thing is I don't know and I don't feel we do a great job educating the family on the profession. I think we're doing better. Yeah, so I think we're doing better with the onboarding of our people coming in and our current people.

Josh Mader (47:37.157)

We are working on that.

Josh Mader (47:43.228)

Hmm.

Critical Aspects Podcast (47:43.993)

And that's something that you know, I've been trying to work on too is like hey Let's let's create this family dynamic and start incorporating the family in this and give them teach them Hey, these are some of the things they deal with These are how you can respond to you know your deputy if they've been involved in an officer -involved shooting if they were involved in a you know in an accident if they were shot in the line of duty of fill in the blank right give them some tools to then come along and help them support but

Josh Mader (48:09.978)

Mm

Critical Aspects Podcast (48:12.749)

They don't have any really inside look other than what they see from the first responder of the profession or what they see on TV. So that's something I think that we definitely need to do better at as onboarding the family aspect as well. So.

Josh Mader (48:22.235)

Mm hmm. Yeah, which is a joke.

Josh Mader (48:33.967)

Yeah, we do. know that counted the couple of years we've done like family days. we're like, bring, the, the, usually go to church at the Springs cause they have good facility there. They just, it's just a family day. You know, we come in, I, you know, I haven't really been a part of those much, but Joe Lackin not as big on that kind of stuff. And a lot of our, like, CISM teams and the, you know, peer support teams and the union and all that kind of stuff. They're that's a.

Big thing I think that we're pushing for is, how do we get the families on board to know, you know, these are the type of calls they're going to do. And here's, kind of what to expect from your husband or wife when they show up after a 24 or 48 hour shift and they're exhausted. Here's probably why. Here's the stuff that they got to do. I think, you know, I know Joe LaCagnata gives all the new guys a book. I forgot what it's called. I love my firefighter. It's a book for the family to read.

Again, I'm not a big reader. I do audiobooks, but I'm not a big reader. But it's a great resource to...

Critical Aspects Podcast (49:42.337)

I did do firefighters know how to read I wasn't I just didn't think you all I thought it was just kind of across the board

Josh Mader (49:45.837)

No, no. Listen, we know enough to pass fire college, or to fire college, then we quit, buddy. You know, there's probably some of the smartest people that I've ever known are firemen. So it's a myth. We're actually, some of us are very, very smart. I'm not one of them, but there's a lot of smart ones. That's what I'm saying. I know, right?

Critical Aspects Podcast (49:52.589)

Ha ha ha ha.

Uhhh...

Critical Aspects Podcast (50:03.663)

yeah.

Well, I mean, just look at Joe. Just look at Joe.

I mean, just like it's a myth that all cops love donuts.

Josh Mader (50:16.849)

Do you like donuts?

Critical Aspects Podcast (50:18.764)

Yeah, but I don't eat them.

Josh Mader (50:21.199)

Why? They're good. I love donuts. I don't eat them very often anymore either.

Critical Aspects Podcast (50:23.235)

Donuts are great, but no, I don't eat donuts anymore. But I tell you what, my wife does make some really good sourdough cinnamon rolls, and I could probably eat the whole pan. Dude, I, yeah.

Josh Mader (50:34.047)

Son, yeah. Yeah, I'm a, a, like a carb guy, dude. It's, that's tough for me, man. I'm a carb guy. I don't care about the sweets. I'm just a carb guy. Hmm. That sounds really good.

Critical Aspects Podcast (50:45.485)

And so you like a good plate of french fries?

Josh Mader (50:49.727)

Yeah, take, listen, I take a plate of french fries and potato chips and I would a bowl of chocolate any day of the week. Any day of the week. Yeah, I love it. Love it. I know, well, it is what it is. A lot of people, you know, I guess that's way it is. goodness.

Critical Aspects Podcast (50:50.712)

Yeah.

Critical Aspects Podcast (50:59.243)

I knew I liked you.

Critical Aspects Podcast (51:07.019)

Hey, so this is proof that law enforcement and fire can get along.

Josh Mader (51:14.84)

yeah, I love that so man. I love it. I love them.

Critical Aspects Podcast (51:17.497)

No, it's good stuff. as we kind of start wrapping down, as you kind of look at where you're at now, I mean, obviously, you know, we kind of already know the answer to this question because I mean, your church does say chaplain and you did talk about making sure that you're plugged into a church. so how much has your faith played into where you're at now and where you

Josh Mader (51:38.768)

Yeah.

Josh Mader (51:49.927)

I think it's just been, you know, I grew up in the church, you know, that's all I've ever known. But you know, God doesn't have any grandkids, know, God only has children, you know, so everybody's got to make their own choice. But I think just, you know, being as involved as I've been in the church over the years and, you know, and I've been on the worship team, I've played drums for since sixth grade, know, so drums and guitar and I've always been involved in the church and, know, just how God has used me over the years to, you know, to help out lot of people, especially in the fire department. You know, it's amazing to see how God moves or how, you know, you know, God sees way ahead. know, we, you know, we want to know up here, but God only shows us right here, you know, but as the years go on, you're like, okay, I see why I didn't do this and I did this, or I decided to stay at this station and not go at this station. And that brought me to meet this guy who brought me to meet this person. It's just, I mean, we could talk for hours, it's just about the God story of how I came to where I'm at. But again, it's just the faith that I know that God is real and God is alive and He loves us and He knows what we need. We think we know what we need, we know what we want.

But God knows what we need, you know, and that the hardest part is not being able to control that, you know, because at least like lot of, know, type A firemen, they want to control the situation. That's what we go into this career to do, to control the situation. But, you know, a lot of times in life you can't control the situation. So it's hard to, it's hard to trust that God does know what he's doing, which we know he does, but not everybody knows that. you know, it's, it's just.

Critical Aspects Podcast (53:14.466)

Yeah.

Josh Mader (53:43.959)

I'm just, I'm just glad that God knows what he's doing and I don't have to figure it out myself because I'd have been screwed a long time ago. You know, I'm a broken man like everybody else is probably broken, more broken than people even know, you know, but, I'm just thankful for grace and thankful that, you know, God sent his son to die for us. you know, it's, it's such, it's, you know, grace is an amazing thing and I'm so thankful for it, you know.

Critical Aspects Podcast (53:50.38)

Yeah.

Critical Aspects Podcast (54:12.768)

Absolutely.

So, I mean, obviously, you're a chaplain. So I don't know if you've got social media, if you're willing for anybody to reach out to you, but I don't know how they would connect with you if somebody wanted to reach out and just have a conversation. But if you're in the fire community and you don't have a good chaplain, definitely reach out to some of these guys because they're

Josh Mader (54:23.996)

Don't.

Josh Mader (54:45.509)

Well, yeah, mean, there's, you you could reach out, they could get connected with me through Fire Rescue Support, which is Joe Locanada's nonprofit, which, know, it's my profile's on there and ways to get ahold of us is on there. But yeah, firerescuesupport .com, think it's what it's, sorry, Joe, I think that's what it's called. But yeah, it's, that would be, that's really the only way to, yeah, like, you know, I don't have any social media, I probably should, but I haven't been on social media in probably,

Critical Aspects Podcast (55:05.529)

Trying to give Joe a plug in there and you're not doing a good job.

Josh Mader (55:15.047)

10 plus years, it's just not my thing. But yeah, yeah, yeah, that would be great. Cool. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah.

Critical Aspects Podcast (55:16.951)

Yeah, no, I'll put that in the show notes. I'll plug, you know, Joe's the website for my rescue support. So, but other than that, Josh, I appreciate you coming on. It's a great conversation. It was, it was good. I, you know, I enjoyed it. So we'll have to do it again.

Josh Mader (55:32.635)

Good, me too. Absolutely. Sounds good.

Critical Aspects Podcast (55:35.747)

So, all right, well, I appreciate it. Thank you, sir.