The Healing Power of Sharing Experiences w/Deputy Warner

In this episode, Deputy Ken Warner shares share the challenges of maintaining physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual health in law enforcement. He emphasizes the importance of prioritizing time with family and open communication about the highs and lows of the job. Deputy Warner recounts his own experience of being involved in a critical incident and the emotional and physical journey of recovery. He highlights the importance of support from colleagues and the healing power of sharing experiences with others who have been through similar situations. He emphasizes the importance of seeking support and not ignoring dark feelings. He shares some funny and awkward moments from his career and encourages others to reach out for help and not isolate themselves.

Takeaways

•  Prioritizing time with family and open communication are crucial for maintaining overall well-being in law enforcement.
• Law enforcement agencies should provide better education and support regarding mental health and the realities of the profession during the onboarding process.
• Experiencing a critical incident can have a profound impact on an officer's physical and emotional well-being, and support from colleagues and sharing experiences with others who have been through similar situations can aid in the healing process.
• Recovery from a critical incident involves physical rehabilitation, emotional processing, and finding a new sense of purpose beyond the job.
• Support from family, colleagues, and the community is essential for an officer's recovery and successful return to duty. 
• Don't ignore dark feelings and reach out for support
• Faith can play a significant role in recovery and finding purpose
• Law enforcement officers need to prioritize their mental well-being

Transcript

Critical Aspects Podcast (00:01.498)

All right, welcome back to Critical Aspects of Law Enforcement. I'm your host, Vernon Phillips. And today we are joined with Kenny Warner. So he is a local deputy, but I'm going turn it over him and let him talk about himself, kind of his background, his hobbies, some of that, and before we kind of jump into the discussion. So Kenny, I'm going to give it over to you.

Ken Warner (00:22.51)

I'm Ken Warner. started with the Sheriff's Office here in 2021. Something I always wanted to do. I grew up, always wanted to be a law enforcement officer. Some hobbies I like to do, I like to fish, anything outdoors, spend time with family. Most recently, know, working out.

Critical Aspects Podcast (00:41.15)

Okay, so spend time with family. now you got your family just grew a little bit here recently. how's that transition been?

Ken Warner (00:50.316)

Losing a lot of sleep. I got a two month old going on three months now. He decides he only likes to cry at night when I'm dead asleep.

Critical Aspects Podcast (00:59.38)

Perfect. Well, so yeah, that definitely interrupts your sleeping habits. And we know that sleep is vile to just your body and your brain. But that's also something that plagues the law enforcement community often is because of the shift work and the various schedules. It just seems like you can never get enough sleep. And that seems to be one of the main issues a lot of people have in law enforcement is sleep, even without adding a newborn to the mix.

Ken Warner (01:28.576)

Absolutely.

Critical Aspects Podcast (01:29.886)

So as we kind of move on, obviously the profession is a demanding profession. It takes a toll on you as an individual. It just requires a lot of you. So what is something you do to maintain your overall physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual health? What do you do to keep yourself just well -rounded in all of those areas?

Ken Warner (01:56.28)

So ultimately, you know, I really try to get in into the church. That's a big thing now. More so now than after, you know, an incident I went through. I was kind of slack in there for a while, but this was kind of the motivator to start doing the right thing. Definitely spending a lot more time with family. That's a big thing, especially with law enforcement officers, because I remember a guy named Doug Monda. I went to a seminar. He said, you know, once you retire, he goes, where's the police department?

Critical Aspects Podcast (02:11.369)

Yeah.

Ken Warner (02:25.368)

Where's the sheriff's office? He goes, they're behind you, but who's in front of your family? They've been there all along and they may be strangers to you because you've given up everything for a job. So that's why now I'm trying to prioritize more time with family, know, just things like that. Try to get out, try to be active, not make excuses to not go to the gym, you know, just things like that.

Critical Aspects Podcast (02:45.182)

Yeah, absolutely. mean, those are all important things. mean, obviously, you know, that spiritual component, getting back into church and that regular routine, but spending that time with family for sure, because, you know, we see that a lot of times in this profession that that family is the one that takes, you know, that kind of gets sidebarred, right? There's always that demand. There's always, you know, another detail you can pick up. There's always another unit you can try out for. There's always...something else that you can do to fill that time slot. But we gotta be balanced in our approach, not only to the career, but also with our family. We gotta make sure that we're carving out that time to spend with them, but not just giving them the time we have left, but giving them quality time with us and not what's left because let's face it, if we give them what's left, they're not gonna get very much, are they?

Ken Warner (03:40.864)

No. And ultimately, you know, us as law enforcement officers, basically, you know how it is, you know, how was your day? it fine. It was good. And stuff just trying to get to that point where you open up a little bit more, you know, it wasn't a good day, you know, that it's okay to talk to your family about, you know, the bad days, the good days.

Critical Aspects Podcast (04:01.63)

Yeah, and think that's important. And I think that's what a lot of law enforcement, also first responders don't do is they don't kind of communicate that with their family, right? With their support network. A lot of times they just want to be included, especially a significant other. They don't need to hear all of the, we talk about this often, they don't need to hear all of the grimy details, right? All of the, like just the nasty things, but.

They want to know if you've had a bad day, right? They want to know, like, if you come in and you're just kind of shut down, you know, you're kind of just very stoic and you just got that, you know, that that resting, you know, leave me alone face. You know, they they want to know, OK, what's going on? So it's OK to tell them like, hey, today was a today was a pretty rough day. You know, there's just some calls for service that were really rough and, you know.

Ken Warner (04:44.45)

Mm

Ken Warner (04:54.082)

you

Critical Aspects Podcast (04:59.208)

I don't necessarily want to talk about it, it's just going to take me a little bit to kind of flush that out, to be able to fully engage. And I think that we need to do a better job of that is being able to communicate that for sure.

Ken Warner (05:12.75)

Mm

Critical Aspects Podcast (05:14.91)

So the other thing that you brought up was after the job, and we'll try to get into this a little bit later, but that's the other thing is like, pour so much time into this profession that when you retire or when it's no longer there, you're left with, well, now what? That's why it's so important to have other things that you're investing into, whether that's you're volunteering somewhere else or getting involved with the church or getting involved with some type of local, just community service or some type of mission or something like that, because then that gives you purpose outside of your career. But then once the career is over, it's not like you just have no purpose anymore. And especially with your family, right. Because if you if you neglect your family.

Ken Warner (06:02.423)

Mm

Critical Aspects Podcast (06:08.98)

Your whole entire career, right? But then you go back and you try to rekindle that, you know, after a 25 year career, that can be hard. But if you're making a direct effort and you're purposely, you know, engaging with your family and you're finding that balance, that's going to be there when you retire. So.

Ken Warner (06:29.89)

sure.

Critical Aspects Podcast (06:31.582)

So as we kind of look at the time that you've been in law enforcement, mean, obviously there's a lot of things that law enforcement are involved in, but kind of before we get into specifically some of the stuff that you've been involved in, and particularly one incident in general, do you think that as a profession that we're doing a good job with onboarding new recruits with what they're actually gonna experience and how their life is gonna change being in this profession?

Ken Warner (07:00.808)

To be honest, no, I don't think there's enough education out there. I think our agency is trying to take steps, you know, to get to that point. But talking to friends and other agencies that I've met, you know, the mental health side, it's kind of like you're a cop, tough, toughen up, you know, you signed up for this, you're supposed to be this hero and stuff. But at end of the day, we're all people. And I think that's the problem, too. We're all guilty of it. We push our feelings to the side. I'm a guy, I'm a tough guy. You know, I can get through this or whatever. But deep down, you know,

Critical Aspects Podcast (07:21.209)

yeah.

Ken Warner (07:29.742)

It's eaten you alive sometimes. think there needs to be more. I don't know how we're going to get there 100%, but I like everything that you're doing for our agency especially. But yeah, I think there definitely needs to be more mental health and more realistic what you're going to experience and stuff. just, this is, you I know how to fire my gun to defend myself, but what do you do after you have to do that?

Critical Aspects Podcast (07:55.144)

Yeah, yeah, because you're taught that, right? You're taught, you know, the basic fundamentals of how to, you know, engage and how to defend yourself and, you know, how to fire your weapon. But like you said, are we instructed what to do after that? And I think that's a big thing. But not only that, not only for for like you as individual, you know, officer or deputy, what about the family?

Right? That's kind of a next chapter that we're kind of looking at. But I think that's something that agencies should look at in general. Okay, so what about the family? Do we do any onboarding for the family and for the significant others? Like, okay, hey, look, your deputy, your officer was just involved in officer -involved shooting. What does that look like? What does that look like for you? What does it look like for them? And how do you walk through that? How do you progress forward after that?

And I don't, I mean, I'm in contact with a lot of different agencies, but to my knowledge, I don't know of any agencies that actually do any type of onboarding for families also and say, hey, this is how you respond to your officer, your deputy after they've been in an officer involved shooting. These are the things to look for. These are some of the things you might see. These things are normal. If it persists past this point, or if there's something else like this is going on, now we need to have a conversation.

And here's some resources, here's some numbers. I think that's going to be a crucial next step in kind of addressing some of the stuff that we see. But I think eventually as things move forward and progress, I think that you'll see a change. I think that more agencies will get on board and you'll start to see a shift. I think it'll take a while.

Ken Warner (09:47.128)

Yeah, for sure. I like how FDA at least started that post -critical incident seminar. I think they're going on their third one. That one's starting to incorporate families more. So, you know, the seminar, you can bring your spouse and they can experience the thing with you and they get to talk about what they go through. So I think that's a good first step.

Critical Aspects Podcast (10:03.668)

Yeah, Billy Graham Ministries has a law enforcement retreat for officers and or first responders and their significant others. It's kind of like a marriage couples retreat where they can go and they can actually kind of flush out some of this stuff. Maybe some things that have kind of arisen in marriage based on the critical incident that somebody's been through. So I think that's also a good resource that's out there as well.

The FDLE one that you're talking about, know that I think they're going on their third one that's coming up here in another month or so. And I know that I've heard good things about that, that that's been pretty well received and they've been doing some good work with that.

But then agencies in general, individually, just making sure that they're taking those steps and following up with their officers and taking the time to make sure that they're doing well. So obviously, here we are, talking about criticals, we're talking about how they impact the individual officer. So I kind already know where we're gonna go with this, but obviously, you were just involved in probably to date, the worst criticals that you've been involved in.

So why don't you just kind of tell us about that, but also tell us where you're at on the other side of that. Because I think that's important. So it's important to talk about the things that, it's kind one of those questions where people are like, I hate that question. I hate when people are like, hey, what's the worst call you've ever been on? Or what's the worst thing that you've ever experienced? And I understand that. But then also when we get into the law enforcement community, when we're talking about the community of just the

Ken Warner (11:25.88)

Mm

Critical Aspects Podcast (11:47.176)

The brother and sisterhood, talking about that amongst each other, but also getting that out, I think encourages other people to not kind of push that stuff down and withhold, and hold that in to the point where it just consumes them from the inside out. this, the reason I do is because I'm trying to get people to be more willing to say, yeah, I was involved in this and these are some of the things that I did to get on the other side of it. It's like, or even, hey, I'm not on the other side of it yet, but I'm,

I'm working through to get there. So why you just tell us about your incident and kind of where you're at now.

Ken Warner (12:19.02)

Thank

Ken Warner (12:24.942)

So December 10th, 2023, probably one of the best nights I had on patrol ever. Hanging out with a good coworker of mine, Deputy DiMarco and K9 Deputy Esquivel. Hanging out with DiMarco, you know, we're having fun. We're just running around. There's not a lot of calls going on. It's a really good night for the county. So I'm thinking, this is going to be a good night. I'm to go home on time. It's going to be nice. fact, I flash forward a little bit.

Deputy Esteban and I, we decide to go to Ma Barker's house. And for people who don't know, that's the FBI's longest shootout in history was at that house. So we're checking it out, peeking and poking around. like, this is so cool. This is history, you know, when a homicide happens in Denetland. So K9 being K9, they got to go to that. It's a high priority call, obviously. So where I'm at in the county, I'm in the Occoquaha side. So I'm far east of the county. Denetland's far west. So he takes off and goes to that. And I start thinking to myself, I'm like, hmm back's kind of sore and for people that don't know how our schedule set up we can take an eight hour eight hour day you know every two weeks or whatever so we're not at 84 hours we're at 80 I'm thinking man I might take my eight tonight my back's kind of sore you know and I never took my eight at the time so it was kind of a weird sign I'm like hmm back's kind of sore then I get back in my car once deputy Esquivel leaves and I see a message on my computer from dispatch saying hey we need you to go to club time

and help assist with clearing out the parking lot. was a large crowd and the club's closing. It's not unusual for us to do that. We've had to do it multiple times. I've had to do it in the past. It's never been an issue. So I'm thinking, that'd be a nice little break, you know, from patrol. It's kind of like a reward. You kind of get to take a break from some of the calls and, you know, just go do something, hang out with other deputies. So I messaged dispatch. said, hey, so sorry, I just saw this message. I'll probably be a couple of minutes late because I wasn't in my car. They messaged back. They say, nevermind. You don't got to go. I'm like, okay. said, yeah, Sarge said you don't got to go. I go, okay, that's fine too. So I go down, I meet up with another deputy. We're hanging out when I received a call from the sergeant saying, Hey, actually we need you to go to club time. And I said, okay, that's fine. I'm on my way. Go to club time. Nothing out of the ordinary. It's a large crowd, but nothing too crazy. Nobody's being too rowdy or anything like that. So we're kind of letting them do their thing. I got my overhead lights on. I get out of my car and I walk up to deputy Ech and

Ken Warner (14:50.156)

Lieutenant Bowen, who was the watch commander at the time. We're sitting there talking and we're researching the suspect on this homicide that happened in Dunelan. So Deputy X looking up the info and I find out that the suspect, you know, lives in Bellevue. And I'm like, that's close proximity to where we're at because we're in the shores now at this point, Silver Spring Shores. So we're looking, I'm like, you know, we should really go check that house after because he just killed his girlfriend and he's probably going to go to his mom's house where he lives. So we're talking about that and about that time.

I just get the most intense pressure in the back of my leg I've ever experienced. Just a huge hit in back of my leg. I think that's kind of weird. So I reach down and I grab my leg and it's just, it feels like somebody threw a baseball at me as hard as they could. And then I just hear what I think's fireworks. And I'm thinking, that's kind of weird. Why are they shooting off fireworks right now? And then I feel the pain in my left leg. My legs are getting wet and I realize I've been shot. So.

Critical Aspects Podcast (15:23.486)

You

Ken Warner (15:50.068)

Ultimately, I end up once reality sets in that hey, you've been shot, you're hurt. I run to the back of my patrol car, I drew my firearm, I popped out around my patrol car and all I saw was chaos. People running everywhere, couldn't see who shot me. People were just scattering. So at this point, my legs are just, can feel, feels like water's being dumped down my legs. And I realized that's blood. So training kind of just kicked in a little bit for me.

Critical Aspects Podcast (16:15.134)

Yeah.

Ken Warner (16:19.33)

I've done some training with the tourniquet and stuff so I knew, okay, I need to get this tourniquet on. I don't know how bad it is, I haven't seen it, but it hurts pretty bad. So I go to the other side of my patrol car and I use my wheel as cover in case he starts shooting again. So I sit down, I immediately draw my tourniquet, I wear it on front of my gun holster. I slide it up my leg, I crank it down as tight as I can, and I'm starting to get really lightheaded at this point. The walls are closing in, and the whole time I'm thinking, I'm thinking, this isn't fair. Like, why me?

And it sounds so selfish, but in the moment, that's what I'm thinking. I'm thinking, why me? This isn't how it's supposed to go. I'm just standing by my own business. This is supposed to happen on a domestic, a traffic stop, not just me standing in a parking lot. So that's going through my mind. And at that point, know, reality sets in again, I got another gunshot wound to my left leg and I only have one turn kit. Well, luckily I had deputies with me and they did an amazing job. They got on the radio. They immediately started calling for help while was tending to myself. Deputy X provided cover.

Critical Aspects Podcast (17:00.222)

Yeah.

Ken Warner (17:18.254)

In case the shooter came back so it kind of put me at ease, know knowing that okay I'm on high alert. I know it's happened, but I don't I don't have to be in panic mode You know, I felt fine with that Lieutenant Von Winkle she's helping put one tourniquet on deputy Paguero. He's putting the other tourniquet on and he did an amazing job I got to watch his body cam He ran he was working the club as a detail and he ran from the front of the club toward the gunfire to ultimately help me and It just makes a bond to like

Critical Aspects Podcast (17:43.721)

Yeah.

Ken Warner (17:47.222)

Like no other. know, people can say their job is like a family all they want, but until you've been through something like that, I don't know. So I'm sitting there and just getting super lightheaded and I'm thinking, man, I have an unborn son on the

I'm like I've been to shootings where people have been hitting the legs and they've not been so lucky and I've been to shootings too where it looks minor and then they end up passing away at hospital. So that starts going through my head and I'm getting these highs and lows of, man am I gonna die? And then I'm praying to myself too, I'm like God forgive me, you know? And I'm just in my head, like you know if it's time it's time, but you know. So I'm sitting there, reality's setting in, but you're going through highs and lows of.

Critical Aspects Podcast (18:24.094)

Yeah.

Ken Warner (18:33.432)

No, I'm fine. This might really be the real end. You know, like I don't know. So I'm sitting there, feels like an eternity. The pain's kicking in. I'm getting really lightheaded like I'm gonna pass out. finally Marion County Fire Rescue, they show up. They look at me and they're kind of giving me that weird look, you know? And I've seen that look on calls before that they've been on. And I'm like, man, this must not look too good. So, though.

Critical Aspects Podcast (18:38.836)

Yeah.

Ken Warner (19:03.05)

One, I believe he's the lieutenant with the fire side. goes, pick him up and let's go. So they immediately they pick me up, load me up and we hauled back to the hospital. One of the coolest things I've ever seen in my life was as I'm sitting on the bed with a stretcher while they're holding pressure on the gunshot wounds, I'm looking out the back glass and all I see is police car after police car after police car going toward the scene. And that's ultimately what this is all about because we really are a family and that just reinforced that, you know,

Critical Aspects Podcast (19:28.584)

Yeah.

Ken Warner (19:32.354)

I felt some peace knowing that hey, they got me. But at the same time, you're also feeling that guilt that they're still there. I don't know where this guy is. I don't want them to get hurt. So I'm kind of in panic mode too. Like I said, I just keep thinking of the kids and I'm like, am I ever gonna see my kids again? Just going on and on and on. And then I finally get to the hospital. I was a trauma alert.

Critical Aspects Podcast (19:52.787)

Yeah.

Ken Warner (19:59.99)

And they told me that I'm gonna go in for surgery. I've never had surgery. So I was scared of that too. Never been put under and stuff. You hear all these horror stories about, man, they get put under and they don't come back. all these weird scenarios are playing in my mind. I'm like, am I okay? Am I not okay? And then they start giving me blood through my neck. And then that's when one of the doctors, he said, your color's coming back. You'll look a lot better. And your blood pressure's going up. And I'm like, okay, that's gotta be a good sign.

But then I'm also thinking, how low is my blood pressure? Like, what's the deal? So it's just chaos in the hospital. There's a bunch of cops there from the local police department. They locked down the hospital. They're working on me. It's just probing me, poking me, ripping clothes off, everything. It's just chaos. So I'm sitting there, and then that's when one of sergeants comes in he goes, do you want me to notify your family?

Critical Aspects Podcast (20:28.392)

Yeah. yeah.

Ken Warner (20:54.19)

It's a hard question to ask, you know? And I'm like, I'm like, ultimately, yes, I want them to know. But at the same time, us kind of pushing our feelings aside, I don't want to put him through that, you know? Like, I don't want them to be sad. So ultimately, I said, yeah, yeah, let them know. So the H .G. did a really good job. They sent multiple deputies to the house in case kids needed watch and stuff like that. And they drove my spouse over.

Critical Aspects Podcast (20:55.612)

Yeah, yeah.

Critical Aspects Podcast (21:06.642)

Yeah, yeah.

Ken Warner (21:22.934)

Lights and sirens to the hospital. By that time I got put in for surgery and you know I was alert and talking but that's all you know you know that's all he could say he was he was talking to me so I don't know we'll see how it goes.

Critical Aspects Podcast (21:31.825)

yeah. Yep.

Ken Warner (21:38.67)

Flash forward a couple hours later, surgery, I got this gnarly scar on my leg, I wake up, and that was the best sleep I've ever had in my life. So I wake up, and I still knew what happened, and I kinda, I kinda like, man, that was really comfy, so I go back to sleep, the lady's hitting me on the chest, she goes, no, no, no, no, no, no, wake up. So I wake up, and they're like, hey, you got people to go see, there's people worried about you. I'm like, okay. I get pushed into the hallway, and it was.

Critical Aspects Podcast (21:46.374)

Yeah

Ken Warner (22:08.514)

amazing. Captains, lieutenants, the sheriff himself, my family, was just a good feeling. So, know, that kind of happens. I'm in the hospital, mixed emotions, you know, I'm like, I got people telling me like, man, it's not worth it. Don't go back. It's not worth it. And stuff. And then, you know, you got some people saying, well, it could have been worse. You're really lucky. So it's just a mix of emotions. But I'm telling myself, you know, I'm like,

Critical Aspects Podcast (22:35.934)

Yeah.

Ken Warner (22:38.456)

I'm confident I'm going go back. know, I'm in this position for the right reason. I want to do the right thing. I'm not the guy who's out there to try to ruin lives. I'm actually out there that sounds cliche, but I'm trying to help lives. You know, I get the same gratification as, you know, helping an elderly lady grieve the loss of her husband that on a call that I'm working and I do taking somebody to jail. It's all the same for me. So that kind of goes by. I spent a few days in the hospital. I have to say the age she was right.

Critical Aspects Podcast (22:50.483)

Yeah.

Ken Warner (23:08.858)

You as well, you were great, making sure I was taken care of and our family was taken care of. So that happens. Reality starts to set in that it's time to go home. So I go home and then I'm informed, you you're gonna have a home health care nurse come every day, she's gonna pull the gauze out, she's gonna repack it on each leg and stuff. It's extremely painful. It was terrible.

Critical Aspects Podcast (23:32.211)

yeah.

Ken Warner (23:37.858)

That goes by, my partner, she goes back to work. So at that point, you're just kind of the house alone. And all your friends are back at work. And I just kept having this fear that like, it's gonna happen again. It's gonna happen again. It's out of my control. I'm not there. And it's gonna be worse. I just kept having this fear. It just kept going through my mind. All the deputies over there, I just kept thinking of them. I'm thinking, my gosh, like I don't want them to be at work.

Critical Aspects Podcast (23:49.939)

Yep.

Ken Warner (24:07.598)

Ultimately a couple times I was telling somebody, hey don't go to work. Which it was just that fear right after. But you know, you're at home, everybody's reaching out, they're being great to you and stuff. There does come some moments of like loneliness, you you're just sitting there. got nothing to do. I was stuck to a couch, I could barely walk. So you know, I had to sleep on the couch, I could barely move. If I wanted food, somebody would bring it to me and stuff. for 10 hours, I'm home alone.

Critical Aspects Podcast (24:11.304)

Yeah.

Critical Aspects Podcast (24:37.309)

yeah.

Ken Warner (24:38.138)

So I'd be sitting there it's just all those you kind of replaying it you're like, what could I have done different? You're kind of beating yourself up and you're like, You start feeling really guilty that you put the other deputies through that like like I could have controlled it But in the moment, you know, that's the stuff you're thinking I'm thinking I feel so bad that I made them go through that And then seeing how it affected them like seeing them cry and stuff like that me like I said these people I look up to like these are some of the toughest people I know and then seeing them cry it just made me feel like this is my fault. Now I realize, you know, it's normal. These things happen. Like, it happens. It's out of our control. so, that goes by. I start getting stronger every day. Start going to physical therapy. And then ultimately after about a month of sitting on the couch doing nothing, I go to light duty. I got put in a really cool spot in the sheriff's office where I got to, you know, see how part of our H .E. works and see some really cool stuff.

Critical Aspects Podcast (25:08.787)

Yeah.

Ken Warner (25:36.856)

So that goes by about two weeks after that. I'm like, I can't do this. That's big. It's killing me. I had to get back out on the road. All my friends are out there. You know, they're worried. I'm worried about him. got to get back. So I go to the doctor on my follow -up appointment. I tell him, I say, look, I don't care what you got to do. You got to sign off on this. I got to go back. And they're like, no, no, no. You got, you got more PT to do. And I said, well, look, I can bend my leg. I can do everything I got to do. I'm confident in myself. I want to go back. Ultimately the doctor agreed and he goes,

Critical Aspects Podcast (25:47.347)

Yeah.

Ken Warner (26:06.466)

Yep, just don't make me regret this. Fair enough. I go back, first day on patrol, scared. Thinking kind of on hyper alert, I'm looking everywhere. I'm like, man, this can happen again. Like, you know, we, we, we train for everything. We train that, yeah, this can happen, you know, and it's in your mind that it can happen, but you're always kind of thinking, ain't going to be me, you know, it's not going to be like that. I'm minding my business until it does happen. But flat flash forward. Now I got to go to that post -credit coincidence seminar.

Critical Aspects Podcast (26:23.486)

Mm -hmm.

Ken Warner (26:46.754)

I got to share my story with others who have been through similar things.

And it kind of just normalizes the situation. It kind of takes that guilt feeling away. And it kind of takes that lonely feeling away. you know, if you're the only one in your agency that's kind of been through that, it's kind of like, well, yeah, I know my friends are there for me 100%. But it's like, do they really know how I was feeling in the moment? Because it may be hard to describe talking to these guys who have had the same thing happen. like, I'm not crazy. Like, you know, that's a normal feeling. And ultimately, you know,

Critical Aspects Podcast (27:15.774)

Yeah.

Ken Warner (27:21.26)

I'm at peace with what happened. If anything, it's made me a much better person.

Ken Warner (28:10.19)

You

Critical Aspects Podcast (29:23.764)

Alright, you still there?

Ken Warner (29:26.124)

Yeah, yeah.

Critical Aspects Podcast (29:29.376)

Hey, sorry, The power flicker kicked the Wi -Fi off.

Ken Warner (29:36.65)

Nah, you're good, you're good.

Critical Aspects Podcast (29:40.3)

So, I mean, it doesn't affect the recording, I just spliced them together. But you were just finishing up the fact you were saying that, yeah, it's good because it lets you...

Critical Aspects Podcast (29:56.254)

You're talking about the post incident you went to and it was good because it lets you know that you're not, you know, that I'm not crazy.

Ken Warner (29:58.753)

You

Ken Warner (30:03.062)

Yeah. So, you know, ultimately after the incident, I ended up joining the peer support, you know, HGIT, just felt it was right. I felt like I was called to do it. It was something I needed to do. Just to be there for other people during things, you know, anything, really. So that kind of inspired me. And then from that point, you sent me that post -critical incident seminar link if I was interested. And that's I was like, you know what? Yeah.

At first I was really apprehensive. I'm not going to go to this. I'm not going to go because reading about it, it's talking about, you you're basically sharing your feelings. Like I said, us as cops were, no, no, I'm okay. I'm okay. I'm okay. One of the best things I could have done was go. And I'm really urging other people too to go. It will definitely change it. It's amazing. So you share your stories like that. It is normalizes everything.

One of my favorite memories too from this whole incident, just showing that the community that we got at the sheriff's office was y 'all realized I have Christmas lights in my house. It was December because I was being lazy and I don't even put them up.

Critical Aspects Podcast (31:15.352)

Well, I I don't know if I would say you're being lazy Maybe maybe maybe pre -incident maybe maybe we can say you were you weren't being lazy. You were just procrastinating, right?

Ken Warner (31:20.29)

Well, this is beforehand.

Ken Warner (31:24.984)

Correct.

Ken Warner (31:29.654)

Yes, yes sir. So, so that happens. Obviously now, you know, guys are giving me crap for not having lights. Ultimately, you know, you and DeMarco made a little Facebook group about light up. I think he put Ken Doll's house because that's what he calls me. So they put this terrible picture of me on Facebook holding this little stuffed animal in the hospital. And then like,

Critical Aspects Podcast (31:31.771)

Yeah.

Critical Aspects Podcast (31:48.94)

Yeah.

Critical Aspects Podcast (31:57.865)

Yeah, well, hey, I'll be honest. And so that was all DeMarco's idea, He reached out to me and said, hey, I got this idea. And I said, man, run with it.

Ken Warner (32:09.826)

Yeah. And that just shows the community we got and the friendships that we make, you know, it's on a deeper level than just, you know, yeah, I'll come to your kid's birthday party. It's deeper level. We'll do anything for one of our own. You know, if we're going to risk our lives for a community that doesn't know us or may not like us, imagine what we're going to do for the ones that we love and care about and work with every day. so, you know, this Facebook group gets made and it's just a pile of people with food.

Critical Aspects Podcast (32:32.164)

yeah, absolutely.

Ken Warner (32:39.31)

Christmas lights and I've never had a higher electric bill in my life. probably see my house, you probably could have my house from space with all the lights that were put up. People climbing on the roof, trees, just whatever. That really touched me, like, you know, that it showed that, this is a good group of people and I'm happy to be a part of it.

But yeah, the feeling's still there, you you always kind of think like, occasionally, what if, you know, I'm kind of more at peace with it now. And ultimately I hold no anger for the guy. At first I was super mad. I was mad deep down, I had this rage and it was just like, it's not fair. You get me, I'm going to get you. We're going to be even and stuff, which is a terrible way to think. But as humans, I mean, it's just.

Critical Aspects Podcast (33:20.938)

Yeah.

Ken Warner (33:33.678)

It was just my natural reaction. I don't know if everybody goes through that, but that's how I felt in the moment. Ultimately now, you know, if the guy was standing right in front of me right now, probably thinking, you know, you made my life hard temporarily, but you also helped me realize what's important in life. And you've made me more proactive with my life to do the things that I need to do. You know, it's cliche. say, you know, tomorrow's not promised. Well, when you go through something like that, you really realize that tomorrow really might not be here. it kind of makes you live with, yeah, it makes you live with more of a purpose, you know? It makes you want to reach out to those people that you don't really talk to instead of, yeah, you know, I'm kind of tired. I'll call them tomorrow. I'll text them tomorrow. you know, yeah, I'll watch this movie with you tomorrow. Tomorrow kind of gives you more of a purpose that, know, tomorrow's not promised. Let's make time for what's important today.

Critical Aspects Podcast (34:05.548)

Yeah, it's really not, yeah.

Critical Aspects Podcast (34:29.944)

Hell yeah.

Yep. So, I mean, obviously going through this whole entire thing, mean, it's, I mean, there's a lot of emotion there. There's a lot of stuff that, I mean, you had to work through. You had to just kind of, kind of unpack. mean, you, you said yourself, it just, the, the ups and downs during the incident, like I'm to be okay. I don't, maybe I'm not going to be okay. Like the back and forth, but then even after that, you know, just, is the isolation, right? I mean, being, you know, isolated by yourself. mean having to deal with that but then you getting back to regular patrol and then having to flush out that those emotions is like Okay, this could this could happen again, right? But but it sounds like the other side of it like you're you it's really changed your perspective on a lot of things but for the better And that's to say that you know, you need to have some type of critical incident to change your perspective because you don't, right? I mean, you can, you can listen to, you know, like your story, somebody else's story and be like, man, that's, that's pretty wild. what can I do now to be proactive moving forward from this? And so, and I think that's something that, it sounds like you're, you know, you're a little bit more willing to talk about and share like, Hey, look, if you've been involved in something, the critical thing, you need to go to this, you need to go to this,

this post -incident debrief that the FDA at least went on because they're bringing commonality to what takes place. Because eventually you're going to be involved in some type of critical incident. You're not going to go your whole entire career and not be involved in something that doesn't affect you in some way or another. It's just not statistically possible. just giving that opportunity, having the opportunity to

Critical Aspects Podcast (36:27.948)

To be able to go and meet with others who have experienced similar things. Just because they've experienced similar things doesn't mean that they feel the same way you do, right? Because I'm sure there are a lot that felt differently, but it gives you the ability to think, hey, you know what? I'm not the only one that's dealt with this. I'm not the only one struggling with just this apprehension of getting back in the seat, getting back in the patrol car and going out like, okay.

Yeah, I'm not gonna lie. There's some fear, there's some apprehension here, there's some doubts, but not only that, also struggling with the idea of isolation, because I think that's a big aspect of where people really kind of get down into the muck and where they feel stuck and they feel like there's no way out as they get into this place where they feel isolated, right? They feel like they're all alone. They feel like there's nobody that can relate to them.

Ken Warner (37:01.922)

Mm

Critical Aspects Podcast (37:23.48)

That has experienced anything that they have experienced, they feel the way that they feel. So, right, they are isolated and you know, that hopelessness and that despair sets in. you know, unfortunately, then in cases like that, I think that's when we see, you know, the self -inflicted, you know, wounds. Whether it's, you know, they actually take their own life or an attempt to take their own life or they do something

Ken Warner (37:45.901)

Yeah.

Critical Aspects Podcast (37:52.648)

In an attempt to just ease the pain because for them, know, us looking on the outside, we're like, man, why, why did they just reach out? Why did they pick up the phone call? Why did they do that? You know, why, why would they, why would they end it this way? And for us, we're like, that doesn't, logically doesn't make sense. But what we have to understand is for somebody in that situation, in that moment where like it is so intense, it is so overwhelmingly impossible for them to see the upside to it, right? To see a way out that they just feel completely isolated alone, right? And then know the devil comes in and he's a liar and he'll capitalize on that and he'll feed you these untruths. But those are the moments where for them, that is a logical decision, right? For them, they're like, this is the way that I end my pain and my suffering. So we need to understand that on the other side. Like, yeah, for us, it looks like it's a...

Ken Warner (38:24.898)

Mm

Critical Aspects Podcast (38:52.688)

It's rash, it's not logical, but for somebody who's just really just wants the pain to stop, it's a logical thing. But we know, right, we know on the other side of that, that that is a permanent solution to what? You know, a temporary problem. Not to say that it's not going to be hard, not to say that it is not going to be a battle to get yourself out of that, to get yourself in a place where you feel

Ken Warner (39:09.121)

Temporary problem.

Critical Aspects Podcast (39:21.608)

Somewhat like yourself again, but there's people, there's resources that are available. so if you're somebody that's there, that you feel that way right now, do not hesitate to reach out and make use of resources because you're not alone. You're not the only one that's struggling. There's people that want to help and do not listen to the lies that are being told to you that...that there's nobody there, that there's nobody that can understand you, can feel the way that you feel, that you're alone, because that's what it is, it's lies. And I'm sure that you'll echo all of that.

Ken Warner (39:59.064)

Yeah.

Ken Warner (40:04.088)

Mm -hmm, for sure. Yeah, like I said, just the ups and downs of the emotions, you kind of start to think, something's wrong with you, until you talk to other like -minded people. Like, obviously, some of the people that I find the toughest people, and I would think, they don't feel like me, you know? They're big and strong. You know, I look up to them, and then they tell me, and I'm like, this is normal. I'm like, okay. And then I can tell that they're relieved by telling me how they feel, and then I tell them how I feel, and it's...really good. That's one thing I like about our peer support unit too and the training that we got. It's good having the little mini blocks of you you kind of just go lay it all out on line to each other and you you know you work with these people that you would never guess some of the things they've been through and it is kind of makes talking about all the bad stuff normal and it makes you feel better after it's like this huge weight that's relieved you think no they're gonna look at me different they're gonna think

I'm weak or you know they're going to think I can't handle this, I can't do that. Then you can tell them and it's just the biggest respect for each other you could ever have. Like, we're human.

Critical Aspects Podcast (41:11.544)

Yeah, and being able to talk about it and having that, you know, just that ability to, especially, you know, after an incident, right. It helps to take that emotional fuse out of that situation, right. Where it doesn't fester, doesn't build. And, you know, 20 years later, it, you know, it just develops into some type of presenting concern that, you know, if dealt with, you know, right then it could have, you know, could have been, you know, sidelined, but

So, know, knowing your, you've kind of walked through and knowing kind of the current state of where we're at in the law enforcement culture, what is some advice you would give to somebody who just walked through a critical incident or maybe even a similar incident in nature to yours? What's some advice you'd give them?

Ken Warner (42:02.092)

Don't ignore the dark feelings. Don't push them off the side, the, I'm lonely, I don't like this, it's not worth it. What's the point? Those kind of feelings, they start trickling in a little bit. Don't ignore those. That could be a big deal. And it doesn't mean you're crazy, it doesn't mean nothing's wrong with you. Reach out to somebody, ultimately, our whole peer support group, if you don't have peer support, or you're HC, or anything like that.

Critical Aspects Podcast (42:21.762)

Mm

Ken Warner (42:29.846)

Reach out to your best friend because I can tell you, you know, they're not going to want to live without you. You're ultimately, I always think of it like this, know, law enforcement officers that commit suicide due to some critical incidents and stuff building up, you know, I don't think they're crazy. I don't think anything's wrong with them. But like you said, they're just hurting and it's the quickest fix. But what they don't understand is now we're all hurting forever. I don't want to lose my best friend to that, you know? So that's ultimately the just not only for yourself, all the others, you know, that you care about your family and stuff. It's hard to see in the moment, but don't ignore the dark feelings. Try to get out. If you cannot be isolated, definitely don't be isolated. It's not gonna make anything better. You know, might think, I'm gonna sit at a house, you know, I feel better here. Especially substance abuse, people start drinking a lot and stuff. I'm not a big drinker, but I know when I was home and people were over, I started doing that. I never really drink.

But it was just kind of the, I can sit on the couch and that's all I can do. Ultimately gained a bunch of weight, gained a bunch of weight, felt like crap about myself. So by the time I got back, I'm like, I need to start going to the gym. That's where I'm being more proactive now, knowing that, okay, I need to become the best version of myself. And I think that's where other people need to take that too, that alcohol is not going to fix your problems. You might feel good in the moment, but it just makes things 10 times worse. Even illegal drug use, you know, I've heard of some stories of...

Critical Aspects Podcast (43:30.562)

Yeah.

Ken Warner (43:54.444)

Law enforcement officers, get involved in that, try to cope. It's not worth it. You're risking your career and not only that, your mental health is going to go to crap. So just ultimately reach out, no matter how you feel at this. I'm telling you that you're not going to be looked at as weak. You're not going to be looked at as less than. I can promise you, you talk to me, nobody else is to ever know you talk to me about it. I can assure you. And I don't know. I think that's where we got to do a better job trying to portray it. I mean, obviously we got the law here in Florida that

You know, it protects those all the confidentiality, but just trying to reinforce that to your friends that, no, man, I promise I'm not going to tell anybody like you have my word. And I think that's ultimately, you know, that's what you got to do. You got to reach out, especially if you're feeling a certain way. And that's where us as friends, coworkers, peer support, everything, we need to do a better job at realizing he's going through some, you know, he's normally always in this mood and he's, he's been withdrawn. He doesn't want to come out with us. He doesn't.

He doesn't want to go to lunch with us. He's been very irritable. He's being lazy at work or something. Just notice those little signs and symptoms basically. And that's where we need to be proactive and be like, bro, tell me what's wrong. Lay it out to me. What's wrong? That's where us too, we fall short sometimes that I don't want to bother him. He's going through something I don't want to bother him. I don't want to make him mad at me. But ultimately, you might be the reason you saved his life. He might be thinking of going home and taking his patrol weapon.

Critical Aspects Podcast (45:04.578)

Yeah.

Ken Warner (45:21.984)

And ending it all because he thinks that nobody cares about him. And just that simple act of you saying, bro, what's wrong? Tell me. You might think, somebody's actually paying attention. They've noticed.

Critical Aspects Podcast (45:34.626)

Yeah, and I just wrote an article here recently on, and I put it up in the app, and it's entitled, you know, King slash Queen of your Castle, right? And it's just this idea that we have in the law enforcement community, first responder community, right? That, you know, we're the king or queen of our castle, right? So like we have to protect our castle, right? Essentially ourselves, right? So we put all of these barriers up, all of these, you know, protective measures, but.

But what happens when the battle and the attack is from the inside, right? From within side your own castle and you've got resources, you've got neighboring people that, you know, want to come and help. But, you're so fixated on protecting your castle that, you won't lower your drawbridge to let somebody else in and to, to help you. And I feel like that's where we are. I feel like we've got a lot of resources. We've got a lot of people that will come to the aid will be your ally, but you've got to let down that castle defense. You've got to get past this idea that we have to internalize everything, even if the battles within, right? it's your spiritual nature or emotional, whether it's cognitive, we've got to get to that place where it's like, no, it's okay to put down the drawbridge and let other people in because essentially, this idea that we're the last stronghold on the mountain top.

That's not true. Right? We're not the last stronghold. We're not the last person, you know, the last holdout. So we've got to get past this mindset. And I think that's where the disconnect is coming between the resources that are available and then individuals making use of the resources is like, there's just this idea that, you know, I'm the only one. It's my castle. It's my fight.

Ken Warner (47:04.355)

Yeah.

Critical Aspects Podcast (47:30.846)

And I've got to be the one to do it and you don't have to. You don't have to be the one to do it alone.

Ken Warner (47:37.9)

Yeah, that comes back to feeling like, you know, we've all heard it. well, you you don't know what I'm going through. You've never done this. How do you know how I feel? And ultimately, yeah, that's a fair assumption. And that's what I've told people to myself. I don't know exactly what you're feeling. I want to. Help me understand what you're going through. I want to help you. just, you know, sometimes it's just being that ear. You you have a bad day at work and just...

Critical Aspects Podcast (47:50.722)

And that's true, right? And that's true.

Ken Warner (48:08.878)

I'm gonna talk my coworkers here off. I'm gonna tell them all about how mad I am, you know? this made me so mad, yada yada. And then after I'm like, okay, I'm good. Got it all out of my system.

Critical Aspects Podcast (48:10.968)

Yeah.

Critical Aspects Podcast (48:24.213)

Well, you know, we've talked a lot about different things. We kind of got serious there for a minute, but so to kind of just lighten it up and before we start to wrap up, you know, what is one of the most awkward calls or funniest calls that you've been a part of, you know, in your career so far?

Critical Aspects Podcast (48:43.763)

Yeah

Ken Warner (48:46.222)

There's a couple. Myself and Deputy Tripp, we responded to a call. came out as like it was gonna be a domestic or something. This lady's son, he wasn't acting right, basically. So possible Baycraft criteria and stuff. said maybe some mental health disorders. She ain't really portrayed us, the fact that he really, you know, he was disabled. So.

He had Down Center, he was non -verbal and he was autistic, so was just a myriad of issues. We get there and he's got poop all over him. He's covered in poop. And he decides that he's gonna smack Deputy Tripp in the face. And for people that don't know Deputy Tripp, he has a mustache. So I always joke that's how he got his mustache, because it hit him in the face and it swiped him. So that was one of the more funny ones, because he wasn't really a real threat to us, he was just, you know.

Critical Aspects Podcast (49:18.061)

Yeah.

Ken Warner (49:41.08)

He has all these issues and we treated him with respect. We didn't fight him or anything like that. We got him in the car just fine. But that was kind of funny to me because I always joke to Deputy Tripp like, that's how you got your mustache from the poop all over the hands. Been to some gross calls, obviously, you know.

Critical Aspects Podcast (49:52.28)

Man, that's funny.

Critical Aspects Podcast (49:58.924)

And they always involve like poop and naked people. Like, and sometimes it's a combination of the two together.

Ken Warner (50:02.872)

For sure.

Ken Warner (50:06.412)

Mm -hmm. Yeah, I I got to actually go to a call and I actually felt like This one's not really you know funny or anything like that But right after I came back shortly after I came back I went to a call with the dude with a gunshot went to his to his legs similar area So I got to go there I got to talk to him and I stayed calm as can be because I knew I've been through it So I'm like look man. I'm like it's gonna hurt. They're gonna get here. I walked him through it all I'm like

Critical Aspects Podcast (50:30.348)

Yeah.

Ken Warner (50:35.096)

Gonna feel like this you know he's asking me am I gonna die brother you know you're looking fine to me am I gonna make a promise just for now I don't know I'm not the Lord but you know you're looking fine to me don't look down keep talking but at the same time I was talking it was weird my legs were throbbing it was like it like a physical response to what was going on so I kind of after I was kind of like that was a little weird you know but he ultimately made it

Critical Aspects Podcast (50:50.038)

Yeah.

Critical Aspects Podcast (50:58.818)

Good. So have you received any nicknames since your incident?

Ken Warner (51:06.114)

Yeah, for sure. So my lieutenant, calls me Tupac. They always joke, so... They always joke.

Critical Aspects Podcast (51:15.19)

Yeah, I had to ask that because I had heard that your nickname was 2pop, right? Yep.

Ken Warner (51:24.302)

Two pop, yep, yep, that's one of them and then 50 cent. yep, and they always tell people, no, I was saying they were always, they always tell people to my lieutenant when he sees like a trainee or something, he'll go, make sure you wear your vest around this guy. He's not good luck.

Critical Aspects Podcast (51:27.896)

So as we cut her go ahead go ahead.

Critical Aspects Podcast (51:41.688)

Well, as we kind of start wrapping it up, just one last thing I want to kind of dive into real quick with you. mean, obviously, you know, there's been a lot that's transpired for you in the last year, but, you know, how much has your faith, you know,

kind of got you to where you are now or has changed since the incident. And you kind of already hit on that a little bit, but.

Ken Warner (52:12.428)

Yeah, for sure. So obviously, you know, I've always believed. I'm not going to lie, this job, I kind of let it get in the way, if it makes sense, because you see the bad every day and stuff. And sometimes, you know, I think doubt's a bad word. But but at the same time, you kind of doubt you're like, man, well, how can this happen? How can this infant die? You know, that's not fair. And you kind of get that like internal, you know,

Critical Aspects Podcast (52:38.187)

Yeah.

Ken Warner (52:42.338)

That stuff saw that I kind of just stopped going to church. I grew up going to church, then I'd go on and off, on and off and stuff. Ever since this happened, prayer, priority, stuff. Just thanking God for everything that I have and everything that He's given me. Through this, ultimately, I'm looking at this more of, I'm thankful this happened to me. Thank you, God. Thank you, Lord, for all that you do for me to make me realize, you know, it was like a wake up call. I truly feel it was like a wake up call from like, hey, get your life in check. This is your second chance. Okay. So obviously I'm definitely more consistent with church now, pray more, know, read my Bible. So I'm still not perfect. I'm still working on it. I'm not going to lie to you there.

Critical Aspects Podcast (53:28.024)

I'm gonna let you in on secret that nobody is. There's only one perfect person and he was killed for that. But that's what we do, right? We strive to be better. And that's what we do, right? We strive to be more Christ -like in what we do making sure that we're spending that time reading, jumping in the Bible, reading the Bible and growing and maturing that relationship we have with the Lord. mean, that's what we do. We strive to grow and mature in that and whatever to be perfect.

Ken Warner (54:00.579)

you

Ken Warner (54:13.219)

Yeah.

Critical Aspects Podcast (54:14.538)

Eventually, one day we will be, right? When the good Lord calls us home. At that moment we will be, but until then, it's gonna be a battle. It's gonna be a struggle,

Ken Warner (54:17.102)

Hmm?

Ken Warner (54:25.304)

Well thank you for that new perfect body up there too. I'm looking good, God.

Critical Aspects Podcast (54:29.526)

Yeah Well, hey, I appreciate you taking the time to jump on here and you know share just your experience and just your perspective, you know Sense that and I think it's good. I think it's good for other people to hear that I think it's You know, just for other people to know like hey look You're not alone if you've experienced incident like this You're not alone if you are, know kind of struggling right now with feeling isolated and feeling alone and there are resources available so appreciate you time and jumping on.

Ken Warner (55:01.803)

Thank you for having me. Definitely, you know, just talking about it again, makes you feel so much better.

Critical Aspects Podcast (55:08.02)

Absolutely. So, okay, thank you.

Ken Warner (55:09.556)

Thank you.