Work-Life Balance with John "Blu" Blumenthal

In this conversation, we interview John "Blu" Blumenthal, a retired police sergeant, about his experiences in law enforcement, the importance of mental health, and the challenges faced by first responders. John shares his personal journey through trauma, recovery, and the significance of seeking help. He emphasizes the need for emotional wellbeing, the impact of critical incidents, and the importance of maintaining a sense of humor in the profession. The discussion also touches on the importance of understanding one's 'why' in law enforcement and the need for ongoing support and training. In this conversation, Blu discusses the critical importance of work-life balance, communication, and connection for first responders. We emphasize the need for healthy relationships and the impact of career demands on family life. The discussion also covers the onboarding process for new recruits, the significance of peer support, and the role of faith in personal growth. Blu shares insights from his experiences and highlights the mission of his new venture, Blu Phoenix Support, aimed at providing resources and support for first responders.

Takeaways:

• Mental health is crucial for law enforcement officers.
• Seeking help is a sign of strength, not weakness.
• Building a strong support network is essential.
• Finding the right counselor can be life-saving.
• Understanding your triggers is key to emotional health.
• Reflecting on your 'why' can reignite passion for the job.
• Conflict resolution is important at home and work.
• Work-life balance is crucial for maintaining family relationships.
• Communication and connection are essential for a healthy home life.
• Investing in family is as important as investing in work.
• Faith can play a significant role in personal recovery and growth.

Blu Phoenix Support

John "Blu" Blumenthal

Transcript

Vernon Phillips (00:02.029)

All right, welcome back to Critical Aspects of Law Enforcement. I'm your host, Vernon Phillips. And today on the show, we've got John Blumenthal, or otherwise known as Blue. And I've had the pleasure to know Blue for the last couple of years. And he's doing lots of great things. And we're going to have a conversation with him today. And we're going to get a little bit of his background and what he's doing now. So Blue, I'm going turn it over to you. Just kind of give us an idea who you are, your background. And we'll go from there.

John "Blu" Blumenthal (00:32.081)

Sure, Vern, first of all, thanks for reaching out. really appreciate it. And I think it's been a couple, gosh, a couple years ago, I think we met at a conference in Florida, actually. Yeah, so yeah, some great things are happening. I was raised right here in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. My dad was a police officer for, gosh, I think almost 30 years here in Oklahoma City. He was involved with the Oklahoma City bombing back in 95. Mom and dad got divorced. I was like eight or nine years old, which was obviously not uncommon for cops' families, unfortunately. Got a brother who's still in the police department. Yeah, after high school, I joined the United States Marine Corps. Went four years active duty there and then moved back to Oklahoma City and got on the police department in August of 99.

Vernon Phillips (01:23.864)

All right, so obviously there's a lot of there. We can dive into your service in the Marines. We could jump into your career there with Oklahoma City. But before we really dive into that, obviously we know that law enforcement is a demanding job. know that even obviously the military service is a demanding job. But what is it that you did regularly or that you currently still do to just take care of your overall health, not just your physical health, but your whole person, right? Your physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual wellbeing.

John "Blu" Blumenthal (02:01.157)

Yeah, what I'll say first of all is it has not always been like this. My first critical incident was August 31st, 2000. I had two partners killed in front of me. I'd been on like three months off FTO. lots of trauma, lots of critical incidents and a lot of a few marriages. And also with that though was not taking care of myself. So I do want to let you know upfront that this has not always been this way and I am still working.

towards whatever it looks like to be as healthy as I can, both emotionally and physically. 2014, 2015, I think was kind of my breaking point-ish. I was on a call, it was after we'd had a massive tornado come through in 2013 and killed several children. Our team was a huge part of that. I was on the search, the urban search and rescue team through the Oklahoma City Police Department at the time and had some pretty substantial events happen during that tornado. actually a chaplain friend of mine just came up to me, he saw me on a call and he was like, Blue, what's going on with you? And I was like, I don't know, nothing, I'm fine. Like everything's good to go, man. And he's like, I don't think it is. And I've known this guy my whole career. I knew him before I came on because of my dad. And he was like, you need to go talk to a counselor. And I was like, I'm not talking to a counselor. I've tried that. I've made some counselors cry. Like that's not for me.

I'm a pretty hardcore guy. Yeah, I'm fine. You know, the typical speech. I became happy being unhappy. And it was just kind of my thing. It was kind of my identity then was the guy who was at this event or the guy who was at that event. And at the time, I think I had three or four Medal of Valors, some life-saving awards and some other stuff. And I just thought I was pretty good to go.

I just got to a breaking point though. got to a point where I was, nobody wanted to be around me. My kids didn't want to talk to me. My wife pretty much hated me. And it just got to a breaking point. finally, just to literally check a box, I found a counselor in Norman, Oklahoma, which is just south of the Metro here where I live in Oklahoma City. He was a retired cop. And I was like, I'll go talk to this guy just to, gosh, to check a box, literally to go tell people I did it again.

John "Blu" Blumenthal (04:26.949)

And the first, I don't know, five minutes or so, he was like, you know, we kind of started talking and I was like, this is not for me. And he's like, of course it's not blah, blah, blah. And he goes, you're pretty F'ed up. And he said it. And I was like, holy crap. And I just started crying. Like I lost it right there. I literally broke down. I let the armor go. I let everything go. And I think that was in 2014, 15 maybe. I let it go. did, I started doing EMDR, which I actually attribute that and my counselor to saving my life. I still go to him. I went to him last month, I think. I still do checkups, but he, him, his, just the way he talked to me, the way he treated me probably definitely saved my life. I try to catch up to like that's.

Obviously the mental part of it, I still go to counseling. Obviously I have a very, very strong support network, not only here, but around the country, but obviously with my family too. That's a huge piece is my family. You know, we always say family first and you know that you're still active and still out there and we say family first, but we're the first ones to pick up the phone and go to a call out. You know, we're the first ones to go take another call or whatever.

But yeah, I still, I try to train. I do Jiu-Jitsu and Judo and boxing three or four days a week. I still try to work out with my kids. All three of my adult children are police officers here in Oklahoma. So I still try to work out with them as much as I can. I really, I retired a year, year and a half ago. And I really tried to, I thought I was taking care of myself, but I still slip.

I still get emotional. still have, you know, people think when you retire the trauma stops and it doesn't. I still have nightmares every now and then. It's not like it used to be, but you know, it goes with you. So that emotional piece, that mental piece is super huge to stay on track with as well as your physical.

Vernon Phillips (06:44.93)

Yeah, and I appreciate you sharing all that. mean, and that kind of ties into some of the other stuff we're going to talk about, you know, moving forward, but just making sure that you're actually, you know, investing in yourself and taking care of yourself. doesn't mean it's going to be constantly all the time, right? Cause you know, just like you, mean, you know, you try to do the best you can, you know, making sure that you're, you know, physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually squared away. But you know, there's times where, you know, sometimes it slips, right? And sometimes there's

There's a gap in there, but trying to maintain some type of level of consistency is what makes the difference. But when you get to a place where you are done and you're checking all that away and you're like, I'm not going to do anything physical anymore. I'm not going to engage myself mentally or emotionally and spiritually. I can just check out of all those areas. That's a red flag.

And that's the time where people around you need to be stepping in or you need to be kind of seeing those red flags firsthand and making use of resources. mean, the resources we have now are so much better than they were. There's still a little bit of that, the apprehension of making use of those resources and actually going out and like you said, sitting down with a therapist, but when you can get in contact with somebody who's culturally competent and understands the profession, that makes a difference. Because like you said, mean, you've made counselors cry. So when you leave there, how does that make you feel? You're like, man, I went to them for help and now they need to go talk to somebody. Right? What is it?

John "Blu" Blumenthal (08:18.363)

Mm-hmm.

John "Blu" Blumenthal (08:28.197)

Yeah, I tell people I give counselors, counselors, you know, and I've heard that from so many people, you know, I wouldn't do what you said and it's not working. And I'm like, well, it's like I've heard people, you know, compared to running shoes, you don't always get the right shoes on. You don't quit running. You don't quit working out or whatever it is. You don't quit wearing clothes because they don't fit right. So, you know, I try to tell them, like, let's find another one. Like, there's so many out there that want to help and so many good ones out there. You just got to find the right fit. And it took me a while to find the right fit because not all of them do it for the right reason, I guess, would be a good way to say it, but some of them just don't get the training. And the more I talk to, you know, they get this extra training, they go through, they go on ride alongs. They're constantly trying to learn our culture, which is not easy. It's not easy to learn this. We've been going through it a long time. I did 24 and a half years before I retired and you know, to try to tell somebody what's going on out there, trying to explain even a feeling or emotion that you have, it's almost impossible. I was talking to a group the other night here in Oklahoma City, and I said the emotions I had back then, I couldn't even explain them because I'd never had them before. I felt hurt and I felt anger and I felt pain and I felt alone and disconnected all at the same time. I had no clue. I had no training. The Marine Corps certainly didn't train you in that. The police department didn't train you in that.

And so I didn't even know what I was feeling. I wasn't going to be able to tell anybody else how I felt because I didn't even know. It was just a weird feeling.

Vernon Phillips (10:04.332)

Yeah. And, you know, but, but the more you invest in that, the more that you've kind of dived into that whole idea of taking care of yourself and your, and your, you know, your overall wellbeing. I mean, you learn more about that, right? You learn, you know, what your triggers are and what, know, what things to kind of do and not do. And I think that's one of the biggest things is, is trying to, you know, educate and like say, Hey, you know, it's all right to need help, right? It's all right to make use of resources. All right to learn who you are as an individual, how you respond to different incidents, dramatic events, so that then you could better recover after the event. And when you do that, it just puts you in a better place, gives you more adaptability and just kind of helps you have a successful career. Because how many times have we seen individuals where they either get out of the career early or they retire and then a year later, they're dead?

John "Blu" Blumenthal (11:03.345)

Yep, well that's kind of what happened to my dad. My dad did, gosh, almost 30 years here. He retired at 50 in 03, and then at 53 in 06, he was dead. And was he sick? He obviously was somehow sick. He didn't tell anybody, of course, because he didn't talk about it. But at 53 years old, after making it almost 30 years in the police department, it's a pretty traumatic event. Yeah, just died.

Can you really tell you I think sometimes it was from a broken heart if you want me to be honest because I think his identity when he retired was completely stripped He continued to work extra jobs Because I had a little company then he was working with me at extra jobs literally He was in the hospital about 10 days. So up until then he was working every day And looking back I was like golly had the knowledge I had now had he listened. I don't know. I wasn't listening, you know And I don't want to call generational because I don't think that's fair to those that didn't have any resources before us. But like you said, we have that now and I often challenge people, the ball's in your court now kind of thing. The resources are here. Most of us who have been through whatever event, we've had that emotion. It might not be the exact same event you've been through, but we've had that emotion tied to a traumatic event. And I think that's where people like us come into play when we're reaching out to people going, hey, look, I've been down the road and it hasn't been positive for me, but this is how I kind of got on the other side of that. And when we start talking one-on-one at ground level, grunt in the trenches to troops, most of them listen now because it comes from people like us. It comes from people who have had to go to counseling. We've had to have spiritual training. We've had to sit down and kind of reevaluate ourselves and go, you know what, maybe I'm the person.

Maybe it's not everybody around me. And that's hard to do. It's very, hard to do.

Vernon Phillips (13:05.102)

Yep. And I think that's one of the biggest things is getting people understand that it really begins with you as the individual, right? I mean, people can tell you whatever they want and you could, you know, you can learn as many things as you want, but until you decide as an individual that, okay, I'm gonna, I'm going to do right by me. I'm actually going to, you know, take responsibility for where I'm at and then actually start to make those steps. Um, you know, to really change the things that are going on in my life. And because a lot of people want somebody to come in and do it for them, but it doesn't work that way.

John "Blu" Blumenthal (13:38.949)

What's crazy about people like us, we don't like to show weakness. We don't want to show weakness to our partners, our command, our supervisors, and more importantly to our family. So if I was to come home every day and cry, I felt like my family would think I was weak and I couldn't provide for them. Maybe I couldn't do my job because I was crying all the time and I was weak. And I tell these officers, these first responders, hey,

There's a time to be in work mode and time to be selfish. And that's the part we struggle in sometimes is to be self. I don't have time to work out. I've got to sleep. I've got to work extra jobs. I got to do extra details. I get all that. But if you don't take care of yourself now, you're going to really be struggling when I'm almost 50 years old. You're really going to be struggling as your body starts to catch up with the times and how you're trying to treat it and how you've treated for the last 25 years and not taking care of it. It's hard to play catch up there, but nobody likes to look weak.

Vernon Phillips (14:35.096)

Yeah.

John "Blu" Blumenthal (14:36.281)

And that's some of the issue when I go talk to first responders. You know, they don't want to look bad in front of their coworkers, their partners. They don't want to look bad at home and it sucks because it's not easy to do. You got to be in work mode. I'm not telling them to go cry in the middle of a call, but know on the other side who to call when you're having a breakdown. When you are sitting behind a building crying by yourself and don't know why, you know, your body's going to give you signs and you really got to pay attention to them.

Vernon Phillips (15:05.778)

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And as we move forward, and you kind of already touched on a little bit, but when you look back at your career and you think about the different things that you've been involved in and you've experienced, is there one in particular that you can say, man, this was probably one of the worst things that I actually had to deal with? And then how did you get on the other side of that? Because I think that's a key point that we really need to try to instill is like, look, you might have, you know, said critical incident and it might be really, really bad, but you can still get on the other side of it.

John "Blu" Blumenthal (15:44.753)

Yeah, I would say, I mean, my career started off August 31st, 2000 when two of my partners were killed in front of me. Officer Jeff Roman, you're from Oklahoma City and Trooper Matt Evans from the Oklahoma Highway Patrol. We were in a pursuit the wrong way on I-40 downtown Oklahoma City and major, major crash and they were killed. I had never, I been around death because of the Marine Corps, but I wasn't expecting this three months out.

after FTO to happen to me because I'm pretty tough, I'm pretty solid guy. And it's that mentality, what happened to me. That night at 3.06 AM that morning changed, I think the trajectory of my career and my life. One, because I allowed it to, I didn't know any different. We went right back to work that next week because we were told to. It's just what we did. And again, I didn't want to show weakness. I was 24 years old.

I've been out of the Marine Corps a year and I wasn't even about to show weakness. then things just kept happening. 2005, another pursuit, another officer had a recruit die during custody and defensive tactics. I was his instructor in 2012. And again, I spoke of the tornadoes that we have come through here. And that doesn't even mention the regular calls.

You know, the baby calls, the car crashes, just the regular calls that we go on daily as first responders in it. It just becomes work. You think you had a bad call and then you get a worse call and that call just gets pushed down. You know, it just keeps kind of piling up until eventually everything explodes out of your bucket, your backpack, your wheelbarrow, whatever you carry. And when my bucket got full, I just got a bigger bucket. But eventually, like I said, it just, it just consumed me. I'd lost.

I'd gone through two marriages at the time. Again, as my kids got older, they realized that I was not okay. They actually seemed weird to them at the time because other parents weren't acting like I was acting. But until I got to a place and I got in trouble at work, I actually got put on administrative leave from an on duty call. I was on AL for about 13 months.

John "Blu" Blumenthal (18:09.169)

And then I was actually arrested by my own department for that call for assault and battery and actually went to and booked into our jail in Oakland County And then I was actually after I got out of jail I was terminated I was actually fired for one year a little over a year actually so When things catch you they they catch you mad. I was making some really bad choices out there and it caught up to me after I got arrested

I was mad. What was I mad? I was mad at everybody, but the one person I probably should have been mad at, which was me. I was very bitter at my department. I couldn't believe they had treated me this way. But after getting some training and education and understanding the dynamics of it, it was absolutely me and not them. They were just, they had a job to do, which was to protect the city from people like me. I did come back to work in 2010 and successfully.

I still had bad calls and still had things catching up to me. But like I said, when I got so tired of being tired and I finally found a culturally competent counselor that, like I said, he saved my life. I started kind of understanding peer support a little bit, but my ego was still so big that if you didn't wear a gray shirt and a gold badge like we wear and you weren't there, I was not going to talk to you. It was still my ego in the way which oftentimes that is what was holding me back was my own ego. But once I started to understand what was going on up here, it made a little more sense to me of why I was acting that way, which is not an excuse. But I started to understand the science behind how and the why. And then I stuck with counseling. I wasn't perfect, nor will I ever be, but I could strive to do better every day. I still go to trainings.

I obviously still do a lot of peer support, not only here in Oklahoma, but around the country. I, I like helping people. like talking to the kids. like talking to the spouses and the first responders because it's, it's one entity. And, know, oftentimes when we talk to spouses or partners, they, know, well, he or she's got the tough job. And I'm like, no, you have the tough job being at home. And I understand that now. So when we change our mindset and understand that this is one entity,

John "Blu" Blumenthal (20:33.605)

and we truly do family first, that makes a big difference. But the training, education, still going to counseling and understanding when there is conflict, you have to have conflict resolution at home. You know, can't just talk about it and we'll go to bed and visit it tomorrow because you don't know what tomorrow looks like. You don't know if there is going to be a tomorrow. And we know that from what we've done for a living for so long, we see it daily. But communication, connection.

I always thought if I was a good cop, I'd be a good husband and good father, and I had it backwards for about 15 years. And once I kind of started to switch that mentality and understanding that I need to be good at home, I need to be a better partner at home and sharing age appropriate, sharing things that are appropriate about how my day was or how I was feeling. Because again, I didn't want to show that weakness. But once I let the armor down, we come home, we take off our vest, we take off our gun belt and our boots and our uniform, we put on our civvies.

But that armor is always up. The armor is up at restaurants. The armor is up at church. The armor is up at family events, at baseball games, at wrestling matches. The armor never comes down. And until you understand the nine damage behind it and why the armor stays up, it's a lot easier to let it down a little bit and start to understand yourself and how to be a good human and then be a good first responder.

Vernon Phillips (21:57.09)

Yeah, no, absolutely. And I appreciate you sharing that because I know, you know, I've heard you speak before and you know, it's everything you're sharing is stuff that you have shared before, right? And you've gone through, Hey, look at it. Yeah. My career started off like terrible, but then it doesn't stop there. Right. It continues. Like there's, there's, there's always going to be another call that has the potential to be worse than the call before.

And then that doesn't even include the other stuff you went through with just being out of work and then fired from your own agency and then brought back. But I think something to really hit on there is that you did come back and not only did come back, but you progressed forward after that. Not to say it was easy, not to it didn't take work because I'm sure it did.

John "Blu" Blumenthal (22:44.697)

No, no, I'm glad you brought that up. People call me all the time and say, number one, why'd you go back there? That's pretty crappy of how they treated you. And then how did you go back? Because oftentimes when this does happen, you go back to the same agency, whether it be for, you know, and then you leave on your own terms or whatever it is. But it was a choice. I felt like I had disgraced my dad who wore the gray shirt. I felt like I had disgraced all of my fallen partners that wore the gray shirt and I made a choice when I came back to work that I was going to be better. I didn't even know how or what it looked like. But I told myself I was going to be better. Now, did I get better overnight? Absolutely not. Absolutely not because like you just said, calls keep coming, bad things keep happening. But at least I started to learn what the emotion was, how it's tied to what event, what triggers are, who to call afterwards when I'm out of work mode and not just letting it keep pile on and keep pretending like everything is okay. I know we talk to people all over the place and you how are you? I'm fine. You sleeping? Nope. You look like you put on some weight. Yeah, I'm eating all the time. I mean, they even say it out loud, the negativity that they're bringing upon themselves and don't realize how negative it actually is and how tough it is on your body to start treating your body that way. And emotionally,

But they'll tell you they're fine. But you can physically see they're in distress.

Vernon Phillips (24:20.248)

Yep. And as we move forward, kind of want to, you know, transition a little bit, you know, out of, out of, know, talk about some of the, obviously there's, there's the bad, right. And, and you, you have to, you have to talk about the stuff that you've gone through in order to flush that stuff out, but in order to encourage other people to, to do the same thing. But as you look back at, know, your career, you know, what's one of the funniest or most awkward calls for service that you can remember.

John "Blu" Blumenthal (24:45.745)

Yeah, I had some guys in motors for about eight years so it was nothing but traffic stops and The way people act on traffic stops and it's so angry when it's just a ticket And it could be a warning depending on what's next out of your mouth I had some pretty funny ones And I'm like people passing me on the interstate and then asking where I came from. I'm like I you just passed me

Vernon Phillips (24:47.372)

You're like, me go through the list.

John "Blu" Blumenthal (25:13.125)

But I had some funny interactions on some traffic stops for sure. I stopped a clown once, a full clown. I've stopped Santa Claus multiple times, multiple times. I actually stopped some naked people, which was during the day, which was a little awkward. But yeah, the clowns and Santa and the dressed up people, that was usually pretty funny. I'd have to, of course, everything's on camera.

So you get to go back and visit later when you tag it to go into the system. yeah, motors was probably some of the funniest interactions I had for sure because I had nothing but interactions all day. So, doing traffic.

Vernon Phillips (25:54.658)

Yeah, and think it's good to remember those because those kind of offset the others, When you kind of remember like, hey, was a pretty funny call or trying to remember some of the good from the job, right, and the career. Because a lot of times we just had this tendency to focus in on the negative. And that just continues just to kind of keep you in that slump, right? Continue to beat you down.

When you find that satisfaction in your job or you find that, you know, kind of that, that little bit of, you know, light there, that, that break in the, in the, the regular routine that gives you a little bit of encouragement and kind of, you know, gives you that, purpose to continue pushing forward and do, you know, what you've set out to do. Right. I mean, you were, you answered the call for service to serve other people. And sometimes, you know, throughout the career that kind of gets lost, right. That call, that purpose gets a little bit blurred because you've dealt with too many people that are, you know, that are just jacks and you just, you know, there's just, you've dealt with some of the worst of society and it tends to drown out some of the best of society that you interact with. So you're trying to keep that balance and trying to keep, you know, that, that tuned in to where, you know, it's still giving you that, encouragement to move forward and just to continue to say, okay, you know what I am, I am here.

I'm fulfilling my call, fulfilling my role because I see the good outcomes here and I see what we've got here.

John "Blu" Blumenthal (27:29.809)

Yeah, we do. We forget it because everything is so negative. Everything we see is so negative. And we forget about the homeless guy we fed. We forget about the kid we held because your partner's holding their parent after a terrible fatality accident. You know, we forget about the stuffed animals that we give out. We forget about the stickers because all the negativity is all we talk about. We don't talk about the stickers. We don't talk about the kids.

Vernon Phillips (27:35.18)

Yeah.

John "Blu" Blumenthal (27:58.385)

You know, is it because it's not cool? I don't know. But we focus on that negative part. It can even be the, you know, the agency betrayal, the HAP policy, whatever. That's the things that get focused on. We don't, we don't get normally kudos for giving, you know, homeless people food, but we get in trouble when we make a mistake, when it involves an SOP or a directive, you know. But we do, we oftentimes forget about all the positive things we really truly do out here and the why.

Like you said, what was the why? When I'm talking to recruit classes, I want them to say it out loud. I want to hear the why. And then when I talk to retired groups, I'm like, anybody remember their why? I might get two or three people. And I get that the why changes. I understand that. But you get back to the why from when you started. It often will lead you in the path that you want to be on because you took it for the right reason.

Vernon Phillips (28:53.528)

Yep. Yeah. No, and I appreciate you, you you, you talking about that, but also the fact that when you do talk to recruits that you're, you're plugging that in. and also even those who are, you know, as some would say the old crusties, right? The, the, old, the salty dogs that kind of, Hey, remember why you got into this in the first place. But, you know, as, as we kind of move forward, when you look back at your career, you know, what are, what are three of the most significant things that you learned that you want to pass on to the next generation, those still in the profession.

John "Blu" Blumenthal (29:30.641)

Work-life balance. That's big one. Work-life balance. If you don't have that and it gets off-kilter because of extra duties, call-outs, extra jobs, whatever it is, the only people that are suffering there are the people at home because you don't see it, you don't feel it until there's a big blow up. So the balance, and it's got to be you and your spouse or it can't be, hey, I'm gonna work midnight shift, you go do this, this is how we're gonna do it, and that's what happened at my house. And it's just not a good way. The other piece is communication and connection. You've gotta find something to do outside of work. And I'm not talking about going to the range or reloading, anything like that, whether it be spiritually.

Little league, whatever it is, you've got to find something to keep that communication and connection open to your family. Because you know that hypervigilance thing is a real deal. And if you don't understand it, that work-life balance, the connection and the communication will all be off at home. You know, I tell people work, work good, home bad. You know, and when you stop and think about it as dumb as that sounds, that's how we often think of things.

Because we go to work, we're like minded. We think alike, we're going to go and talk to people and go do our job and we're going to laugh and have a great time all night long. And then we go home and we're going to be disconnected and shut off. Because they truly get the leftovers. They truly, truly get the leftovers. And nobody likes leftovers after a couple of days. Nobody's going to eat that. You know, it's going to get thrown out. And there's a reason for that because it's spoiled. And it's the same with us come home and all they get is the leftovers. So work-life balance, communication and connection are some things that I've learned over the years because I've been on both sides of it now are a big deal in mitigating through this career, this life that we have.

Vernon Phillips (31:45.006)

Yeah, and think that's important for anybody, not just those coming into the career, but also those still in the career. There's a lot of people don't learn that balance, right? They don't learn that balance. They don't learn to stay connected, to really invest in the healthy communication. Because over time, that's going to break down. And I love the fact that you kind of brought the two together. Like, hey, nobody likes leftovers, right? Nobody wants to go and open up that.

John "Blu" Blumenthal (31:51.065)

you

Vernon Phillips (32:14.592)

open up that container in the fridge and be like, you know, right. And that's the same thing, you know, that we see oftentimes is that's what you take home, right? You take home that that container that's filled with nasty, spoiled, stinky stuff. Right. So when you get there, that's what you bring home in that. And that top gets cracked open. And that's what gets pushed out to your family and your friends is that that rank nasty, spoiled,

John "Blu" Blumenthal (32:32.047)

and that's what we're bringing home.

Vernon Phillips (32:45.078)

what's left of you. And that's not fair, right? That's not fair to your family. That's not fair to your friends. And it's especially not fair to your dog. you know, especially because that's, I've got a friend that says, hey, you really want to know how somebody really treats people? Look at the way they treat their dog. Right. And I never really thought about that until I was like, there's probably a lot of truth in that. But nobody wants, you know, the leftovers. Nobody wants that stuff that's spoiled. When you go home, you should be giving your family, your kids, you should be giving them that top quality part of you. You should be going and investing with them the same that you would the job because they're the most important aspect you have. Your social support network.

You know, those who are there, those who are there after the job is gone or hopefully are still there after the job is gone, right? They're the ones that you need to be investing in and nurturing and investing in those relationships because they're the ones that when all of it's gone, right? When you're no longer wearing a uniform, when you're no longer called, you know, Sergeant or Lieutenant or whatever it may be, they're the ones that are still there, right? Yeah, hopefully, right? You retire and you...

John "Blu" Blumenthal (33:50.758)

Yes.

John "Blu" Blumenthal (34:07.289)

Yep, hopefully. Hopefully.

Vernon Phillips (34:12.334)

You retire as a captain and you leave and guess what? They're promoting a captain the next day.

John "Blu" Blumenthal (34:18.127)

easily, yes.

Vernon Phillips (34:20.396)

But so you go home and your family doesn't care if, you know, if Captain Blue's coming home, they want dad, they want husband, right? That's what they want. that's just a great reminder, like, hey, let's make sure that you're giving, you know, that best part of you. And doesn't mean that you're going to give work the spoils, right? That's not what we're talking about, but finding that balance, right?

John "Blu" Blumenthal (34:27.685)

you

Vernon Phillips (34:50.358)

knowing like, I'm going to balance it out and divide it up to where I'm doing right by my family. And I think that's important.

John "Blu" Blumenthal (34:58.033)

Well, and a lot of that too is including your spouse or partner in some of those decisions. Hey, there's a detail coming up, whatever it is, are you cool? A Thunder game for us. Hey, there's gonna be Thunder coming up next month, are you cool? Well, no, we've got this and this and this. Yep, you're right, because I don't need to go work Thunder every night or whatever it is. And I often talk about who's gonna wipe your ass at the end of the day after you're retired. It's not gonna be your department, it's not.

Vernon Phillips (35:03.682)

Absolutely.

Vernon Phillips (35:17.582)

Yeah.

John "Blu" Blumenthal (35:28.305)

There, as soon as you retire, your entry card is turned off. You're not coming back into the building without an escort. Hopefully the family that we've been talking about will still be there for you when you are sick and old and you're not a captain, you're not a deputy chief or sergeant or officer anymore. And now is it the time at 50 years old to be dad? Nope. My kids are 31, 25 and 21. You know, there's nobody to play catch with anymore.

There's nobody to go to games to anymore. And I look back and think about all the times the boys were, hey, look, dad, let's go play catch. I'm exhausted, son. I got to get a nap before I can head in for midnight shift. Or I tell them I would be physically at everything, but emotionally, I was completely checked out. In fact, I was going through some pictures the other night. It's, yeah. I went back and looked at some of their graduations, some of their games, some of their events.

I'm in uniform, most everyone of them. Went back and looked at pictures of me and my dad, same thing. He's in uniform. You you can't get those times back. can't sit up in the stands later on and watch your son walk across for graduation. Because I had convinced myself and my wife that I should be down there to take pictures, because I'm going to work it. And you don't get that time back. And it's hard to talk to younger guys about it. But when I'm talking to the old cats, they're like, yeah, I get it.

Vernon Phillips (36:53.164)

Yeah.

John "Blu" Blumenthal (36:57.989)

I understand that.

Vernon Phillips (37:01.07)

Yeah, I think that's the biggest thing is trying to now relay that to those coming in, right? I mean, it's still important to talk about it with those who are 15, 20 plus years in, right? Because some of them still may have that time left where they can kind of pump the brakes a little bit and then kind of self-correct that. But trying to instill that in those that are just coming in like, look, learn this now, I think is a great key point.

John "Blu" Blumenthal (37:23.291)

Right.

Vernon Phillips (37:31.294)

And you're kind on that. So when we look at like the onboarding of our recruits, you do you think that we're everything we can to really give them the resources and information they need as you know, coming into the profession and saying, okay, hey, this is what you're coming into this is what this is what it looks like and providing those resources to them.

John "Blu" Blumenthal (37:53.469)

I think most agencies are doing the best they can with the resources they have available right now, whether it comes down to money, manpower, instructors, whatever it looks like for them. Very rarely will I run into an agency or an administrator that is purposely not doing the best that they can. But again, everyone has a boss. Would it be great for everybody to be at full manpower? Absolutely.

I don't know many agencies in the country that are even close to it. And I don't think it's because we can't find people that want to do this job anymore. And I know people say that. I think a lot of it comes down to some of the politics that we have no control over at all. And I think these agencies are doing the best that they can. But I also think on that side too, is that's where your peer support, your wellness teams come and play to be able to go in and talk to these agencies or to these young recruits at the academy level or the cadet level and spread these resources and give these personal stories to say, don't do this because this is what's going to happen, you know, and share some of those pieces. I know in Oklahoma City, we do a really good job on our wellness team. In six months of the Academy, the wellness team is teaching once a month and doing a spouse Academy or family Academy once a month, which is awesome. I know other agencies around the U.S. that are doing the same thing.

But I do think they're doing the best that they can with the resources that they have to get the word out, to get resources. And that's where people like us, other foundations and nonprofits around the country that we work with are available. And I just, hope that these administrators will use them and reach out, you know, and say, Hey, can you come help us? You know, please come in and talk about this for us. Cause not everybody needs a wellness team. Not everybody needs 200 peers.

You know, but if they have the resources and they know who to call, that's the first step. And then getting, getting that word out to these young cadets, to these young recruits at the academy level and their families, you know, trying to send a cop home with a message to your family. like sending a kindergartner home. If you don't pin it on the back, you know, and then you're not going get there. No, it's not going to get there. No. But I do think everybody's doing with the resources they have. I think that everybody's doing the best that they possibly can.

Vernon Phillips (40:06.082)

Yeah, it's not gonna get there.

John "Blu" Blumenthal (40:17.787)

Cuz nobody wants to fail your community. Nobody wants to fail your state or your county. So I do think that everybody is probably doing the best that they possibly can with what they have.

Vernon Phillips (40:30.326)

Absolutely, and I think for the most part that is you know, that's pretty true. I think it's pretty accurate I think you know, there's some agencies like you talked about that they're doing you know Way better than others and there's some that are that are trying to say this is what we have. This is what we're But I think just in general though. There's a lot of there's a lot of other things going on There's a lot of other resources outside of your agency. They're really trying to you know, just dial in and say hey look make sure that you once you step into the career that you are, you're taking care of yourself, you're taking care of your family, you're making sure these things that, you know, are usually, you know, just key issues that come up that you're watching, you're trying to take care of. And it's coming from people who have that experience. They're like, this is lived experience that we're trying to pass on to you saying, don't do what we did. But unfortunately we know how that goes. You know, that's like, it's like teaching your kid or your toddler, hey,

John "Blu" Blumenthal (41:22.001)

yeah.

Vernon Phillips (41:27.746)

Don't put your finger in the outlet. Don't touch the hot stove. And they look at you and they're like, right? They do exactly what you don't want them to do. and you're like, okay, I told you now what are we gonna do moving forward? So.

John "Blu" Blumenthal (41:43.121)

Yeah, you you bring up a really good point right there. And that's why I think some peer support around the country and these wellness teams are so important for the administrators to know who to call because you could tell one of your troops something and they'd be like, yeah, Vern doesn't know what he's talking about. He has no clue what he's talking about, but I could call them, say the exact same thing. And they'd be like, oh, I get it now. So it is, it's like dealing with somebody on that emotional level because of maybe where they're at in their trauma or their process.

And I think that that's why it's so important for these administrators to know that they can get outside their agencies. Cause as you know, most officers, most first responders don't want to talk to anybody inside their agency. They would rather talk to somebody from somewhere else. Cause I mean, I often, in fact, most of the, I very rarely ever meet most of the people I talk to, very rarely. Um, occasionally I will, if I go to their town and I'll text them and like, Hey, I'm in town for whatever. But most of the time, there's a lot of first responders who'd rather.

Vernon Phillips (42:22.702)

Yeah.

John "Blu" Blumenthal (42:40.113)

know to call someone outside of the agency and get some information. Then that way, if it does lead into counseling and you find a culturally competent counselor somewhere in their area, they know the agency doesn't know. And they're good with that. And oftentimes, they will go do that.

Vernon Phillips (42:59.886)

Yeah, and I want to take some time here to kind of dive into what you're doing now. I think it plays into just everything we've really talked about. obviously, you're on the other side of your career, but you're still actively investing into others. Others that are still in the career, still jumping in, just coming in. So why don't you just go ahead and tell us what you're doing now, kind of what you've got going on and what that looks like.

John "Blu" Blumenthal (43:17.189)

Yes.

John "Blu" Blumenthal (43:24.753)

Yeah.

I appreciate it. So I've started a little business, Blue Phoenix Support. It's a LLC here that I started in Oklahoma City. The Phoenix I chose because it rose from the ashes. And I feel like as first responders and some of the things that we go through in our trauma, in some of our events, we literally rise over and over again. And that's why I chose the Phoenix to be a part of the title.

Some of the things that we're going to be doing is peer support, taking phone calls from administrators, setting up wellness teams, doing debriefs or defusings if agencies need that, and then doing also the critical incident stress management classes to help build peers, to make peers. That's a national standard through ICISF. So a lot of good things, but the big thing is being able to talk to the administrators they know who to call when something happens. Working with some smaller agencies that do not have any peer support at all, but again, it's just that connection with their staff to say, hey, let's call Blue, let's at least get the ball rolling here and get some resources our way. Because oftentimes too, we will know people in your area that also have wellness teams that have peer teams that can respond obviously much quicker than someone on the other side of the country, but at least get that resource in place and at least get them there to get that team grounded until we can get some other people there to help. But yeah, it's really just gonna be doing peer support, helping out, making connections and just keep this mission moving forward, getting out and doing presentations, talking to, like you used to talking to recruit and cadet classes all the way up to retiree.

John "Blu" Blumenthal (45:20.803)

and still get out and hit some of these conferences. And again, just keep the word moving forward on this mission to get everybody healthy. I hope that my company and other foundations and peer support and wellness isn't a thing. I hope that none of these conversations even have to take place in 20 years. I hope they don't even know what it was. And now is that real life? No, no, it's not. But maybe it can get better. And I actually heard somebody say the other day, we say we changed the culture and we need to start changing the tradition, which really hit home with me. I was like, wow, that changing that tradition and the culture, think together simultaneously, we'll start to navigate these young cats into the right direction to where maybe they don't wait 15 years. Maybe they don't wait until they're in their 50s to try to get help and then they're playing catch up literally the rest of their life with their trauma. So I'm hoping this word gets out.

If you don't know who to call, call me. I will definitely get you hooked up with the right resources in your area. Yeah, because like I said, we're just here to help people and get them on the right track.

Vernon Phillips (46:33.198)

Absolutely. So how can somebody find you? You're on social media. You guys have a website.

John "Blu" Blumenthal (46:36.143)

Yeah, am. Yep. Yep. I'm on social media. My website is still being built as we speak, actually. The email is blue.blufenix1271 at gmail.com is the email. And then I'm going to give you my personal cell phone number, which is 405-521-7903. Please don't hesitate to call me. I will find you resources. I'll sit and talk to you.

If I need to travel and come do presentations for you or help your leadership work through some things, I am all on board with that. And just getting the word out that it's okay to ask for help. It's okay to be healthy. Your identity doesn't have to be the crazy old guy, the town on the streets doing whatever. You can go out and actually help your community and remember your why.

Vernon Phillips (47:31.16)

Yeah, absolutely. And I'll add that in the show notes so they can, you know, they can, they can go and find your social media page and, and all of that. So, but you know, as we kind of start to wrap up and, know, I appreciate your time. I appreciate you, you know, coming on and just sharing just with your, your background and your history and kind of what you're doing now. But as you look back over your career, you know, how much is your, has your faith played a part in kind of where you're at now?

John "Blu" Blumenthal (47:46.513)

Thank you, sir.

John "Blu" Blumenthal (47:58.267)

So, yeah, so I think, you know, I'm Jewish. Both my parents were Jewish all the way back to it whenever. You know, it's funny, I grew up in a temple here in Oklahoma City, at Temple B'nai here in Oklahoma City. And then, I mean, unfortunately, I got away when I got in the Marine Corps and then onto the police department, you know, working eight days on, six days off, not prioritizing, would be a better way to say it, my faith.

I pray every day once in the morning, once in the evening. I often stop during the day because if I text you and say I'm praying for you, I literally am going to stop what I'm doing and say a prayer for you. But as far as, you know, everybody, it's weird sometimes after trauma, they either push it away or they immediately want it. Normally, normally. Sometimes it takes them a little while to say, hey, I really need something spiritual right now, which fortunately

We're really good at finding that chaplain or that rabbi. So how much has it played? It was there, I'll tell you this, it was there when I needed it, which I knew that it would be. But again, sometimes, you know, we prioritize things in the wrong order and we often forget about how we were raised, whatever religion it is. And we forget sometimes what that piece looked like and what it's done for us and what it did for us until we need it, but we know that it will be there when it's necessary.

Vernon Phillips (49:29.51)

Yeah, and I appreciate that. I appreciate, you, you know, you just taking the time, jump on and, share that and just share your thoughts and just your passion for moving forward and what that looks like and, um, kind of next steps for, for you. So.

John "Blu" Blumenthal (49:48.495)

I appreciate you very much reaching out. Yeah, this was awesome, man. Good timing. And I really do appreciate you. And I hope this message gets spread. And I hope that if just one person watches this, just one person, and they reach out, then what we did today was definitely worth the time that we did it in.

Vernon Phillips (50:07.984)

Yep. And I mean, we're just getting ready to wrap up and I just had a camera issue. So it's all right. My, my, my angle changed, but we're still here and, but I appreciate it. So I'll add all that in the notes and, blue is good talking to you.

John "Blu" Blumenthal (50:13.881)

Hahaha

Vernon Phillips (50:24.208)

We like

Vernon Phillips (50:32.9)

Okay.

Vernon Phillips (50:37.382)

Thank