Maintaining Purpose with SWAT Operator Allyn Goodrich

In this conversation with Allyn T. Goodrich, we discuss the critical aspects of law enforcement, focusing on the importance of maintaining balance through routine, mental health, nutrition, and spirituality. We explore the challenges faced by officers, the significance of discipline, and the need for effective training and coping mechanisms. Allyn shares his personal journey, including the impact of traumatic experiences and the therapeutic nature of writing and speaking. The discussion emphasizes the interconnectedness of physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual well-being in the demanding field of law enforcement.

Takeaways:

• Routine is essential for maintaining balance in law enforcement.
• Mental, physical, emotional, and spiritual health are interconnected.
• Discipline is crucial for personal and professional growth.
• Nutrition significantly impacts mental health and performance.
• Spirituality can provide strength and purpose in challenging times.
• Coping mechanisms are vital for dealing with traumatic experiences.
• Sharing personal experiences can help others in similar situations.
• Writing and speaking can be therapeutic and impactful.
• Support systems are essential for mental wellness.

Allyn Goodrich

Transcript

Vernon Phillips (00:01.418)

Alright, welcome back to critical aspects of law enforcement. I'm your host Vernon Phillips and today on the show we've got Alan Goodrich. He's a SWAT operator. He's out of the Vegas area. I'm going to turn it over to him. I'm just going let him tell us a little bit about himself, kind of his background, how long he's been in law enforcement, kind of what he's doing now. So Alan, I appreciate you coming on.

Allyn T. Goodrich (00:24.544)

Hey Vernon, thanks for having me. It's a pleasure. My name is Alan Goodrich. I've been in law enforcement 20 years or so. Worked a lot of assignments in Las Vegas from detective bureaus, intelligence all the way up to, you know, now I'm in SWAT. Been doing SWAT for just under eight years or so and having a blast. My career's sort of kind of taken a change in the last couple years because of some books and speaking stuff but nonetheless i'm still active duty law enforcement still put on the green machine so

Vernon Phillips (00:59.136)

Awesome. So obviously, I there's lots of stuff we could probably draw out of that. I mean, you eight years on SWOT, 20 years in law enforcement. So obviously, you know, you have been invested in the profession. You've probably experienced a lot in the profession and we know that, you know, it's a demanding job. So what is it that you do that, you know, just to keep yourself balanced, you know, kind of on a nice level playing field you for your physical, mental, emotional, spiritual well-being. So what is it you normally do just to keep yourself kind of at peak operating performance?

Allyn T. Goodrich (01:33.74)

I would say mostly I try and stick to a routine and it sounds kind of weird coming from a person who's on call 24 seven. It's that routine gets thrown off a lot, but I try and do the same things every day and I try and do the same things every weekend from working out to going to church, spending time with the family, spend time with the loved ones. try and keep it as I try and keep it the same if I can. Now getting woke up at three in the morning and getting call outs kind of throws everything off and you try and get back in the routine. But I think, you know, from well-roundedness, I wouldn't even say that I'm somebody who's super squared away with that kind of stuff. We all struggle, but my routine is what generally keeps me fundamentally secure because I try and do the same thing all the time.

Vernon Phillips (02:23.118)

Yeah, and I think that's important because a lot of times when things get really busy or we get really stressed out and we break from that normal routine, right? That's when we kind of see things just to start happening, things manifesting more than they need to. Because if you're regularly taking care of yourself, whether it's you're watching what you eat, whether you're exercising, whether you're, like you said, going to church, investing in yourself, but then if life just kind of hammers you, hammers you, hammers you, and then you just get to the point where you're like, man, you know, I just need a break. So I'm just going to kind of cut back on, you know, working out. going to, I'm going to stop eating, eating clean and eating healthy. And then next thing you know, you know, six months down the road, you know, you, you wonder like, man, I just don't feel like doing anything. I don't want to, you know, I don't want to get off the couch on my days off. I want to do a sit around, but it's like, know, so if you can maintain that consistency, I think that's a, you know, I think that's a huge benefit to anybody working in the law enforcement profession for sure.

Allyn T. Goodrich (03:22.936)

Yeah, absolutely. Did you ever read Gil Martin's book, the emotional survival for law enforcement? Man, so he talks about that. Maybe if he doesn't specifically talk about like getting in a routine, but he talks about that a lot and they make you read that book when you're in the academy and it just kind of goes in one ear and out the other. But if you read that book, like year 10 or year, even year five or year 10, you'd be like, okay, I get it because you're right. Like it's so easy to

Vernon Phillips (03:28.365)

Yes.

Allyn T. Goodrich (03:47.88)

I'm tired. I don't want to go to the gym today. You know, or, I don't want to, I'm just going to hit this fast food real quick. Cause it's the only thing that's open rather than going home and cooking something appropriate. You know, those, those routines, those things, I mean, we got to do it just to stay, you know, everybody wants to talk about mental health these days, but it's, it's the whole health, you know, the whole wellness between your body, your spirit and your mind. It's all one can't go without the other. So you could be in the gym.

Vernon Phillips (04:07.416)

Yep.

Allyn T. Goodrich (04:14.198)

you know seven days a week and still you know falter on the other stuff and be completely screwed up.

Vernon Phillips (04:20.258)

yeah, and that's, you know, that's what we talk about. That's what we always ask, you know, what is, what do you do physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually? Because, you know, for me, those are the things that I look at to make up any individual person, right? Those are the four main building blocks of that, of who you are. And when you only invest in one of those or two of those and don't invest in the other, you're not a balanced person, right?

So if all you do is work out and exercise, exercise, exercise, you might be an absolute machine, but on the inside you could be an absolute wreck, right? Or cognitively there could be a lot of things going on that you're just not dealing with. But man, from the outside, you look like you're in peak physical performance and it's like, to, you're SWAT guys, I don't want to say anything bad about SWAT guys, but.

Right, they tend to kind of get that, you know, that stereotype where it's like, man, you know, they're squared away, they put together, but you guys also deal with a lot of crap and you see a lot of things. You're doing a lot of, you know, high end, you know, high drive and risky, you know, operations. So it's like, you know, you guys are seeing a lot of stuff and if you're not investing in yourself completely, whole person, right, whole body, then you may look the part on the outside, but man, on the inside, you can.

You could be struggling and I always say you're held together with bubble gum and duct tape. And I'd be profan, right? And you probably know some guys like that. I know some guys like that. But man, that's why it's so important you have to invest in just your whole, your overall well-being, just who you are as a person. if you don't, eventually it's gonna show somewhere.

Allyn T. Goodrich (05:49.335)

and ibuprofen.

Allyn T. Goodrich (06:09.96)

Absolutely there's cracks in the foundation if it's not mixed right.

Vernon Phillips (06:13.614)

Oh yeah. Yep. if that foundation of those for me, I look at further, if those four, you know, main building blocks of who you are, if they're not, you know, solid, if they're not, you know, short up, if they're not set right, then everything you do on top of that, you it's not going to be, it's not going to, it's not going to set right, right? I mean, it's just not going to go well. So that's why I think it's, it's important to definitely look at whole person. And I think that's where we, miss the mark sometimes is we want to

Like you said, we want to focus in on, you know, like certain aspects. We want to focus in on the physical or just the mental or just the emotional. I feel like in the law enforcement realm, the spiritual has kind of taken a backseat in the last several years. But that's still a very vital aspect of who we are as individuals, because you may be like, well, I don't believe in anything. Well, that's still a belief, whether or not you want you want to admit that. So, but yeah, I think it's definitely important.

Allyn T. Goodrich (07:11.48)

I mean, for, the most part, when I began being involved in the mental wellness or mental health aspect of the profession, and now I'm, kind of really heading that direction with a lot of stuff I've been speaking about or being involved with, you know, I was doing it for a while and just didn't seem like I was.

I mean, I understood the concept of what people would say when I would go to seminars and I would understand the things they were talking about, but when I would try and apply them to me, it really didn't make much sense. And I remember I was getting coffee one morning with a guy who used to be a sergeant up on our department. His name's Jason Harney and now he's very involved with filmmaking and that kind of stuff.

But Jason is like, he's got to be in like his mid to late fifties and he's just like absolutely shredded. Right. And so I'm sitting across from him and we're at Starbucks and I've got like my big fat coffee with cream in it and like a muffin and he literally had like a bottle of water. I'm like, why did you ask me to meet you at Starbucks? If you're just going to get a water, he's like, well, that's what people do. They meet at Starbucks, but Jason really drove home a lot of points to me about the nutritional side of things and the body is a machine. And when we give our body the correct nutrition and correct fuel subsequently, your brain is fueled correctly. And so just as long story short, my son was playing football and he was a little bit on the chubbier side and he wanted to, you know, really focus in on his nutrition. So him and I together, we designed a nutrition plan and then we stuck to it like religion. And it was weird because within about three to six weeks, I got it. You know, like I felt like my brain was firing on all cylinders. My body was firing on all cylinders. And all I had to do is what I was putting in my mouth because I was already conscious of the, the,

Vernon Phillips (08:59.811)

Yeah.

Allyn T. Goodrich (09:02.978)

pitfalls that we come into with our profession. But suddenly I was seeing like, these two things actually go together. And so, man, you know, I don't want to say depression or, but, everybody's got their highs and lows, but I just felt when I was really focused on that nutrition, everything just kind of maintained a lot easier than these ups and downs of eating a, you know, a big cake and then sitting on the couch and being like, I'm such a lazy POS. And now I feel good just eating correctly.

Vernon Phillips (09:20.993)

yeah.

Allyn T. Goodrich (09:29.77)

So that with the mental awareness that I was already focusing and worried about, it really came together.

Vernon Phillips (09:36.012)

Yeah, that's a huge thing. mean, obviously, you know what you eat and what you put in your body is huge. mean, I go through just like anybody. go through cycles, right? Where I'll I'll get my head right and you know, I'll get on track for a little bit. But you know, my thing is like, yeah, you know, I work out, but I also like food. So it's like this, you know, this struggle. You know, we are just having this conversation today. My wife and I, she's just like, look, you just have to say goodbye to potatoes. She's like, you know, potatoes, french fries, all she's like, you just, you said, say goodbye to her. She's like, you said goodbye to other things. You just got to do that. And I'm like, yeah, but, but yeah, but you know, it's like, but then you can't have french fries. And she's like, yeah, but that's okay. And I'm like, oh, you know, and I know she's right, you know, so I'll, uh, I'll kind of go through cycles and then, but.

Allyn T. Goodrich (10:15.928)

Easier said than done.

Vernon Phillips (10:33.678)

I can tell you that when I do eat clean, right? When I eat the way that you were supposed to eat, I don't want to go off on an infomercial for different diets and all that, right? But it's just for me personally, my inflammation levels go down, my fatigue goes away, I have more energy, it's sustainable, and it's it's unbelievable. And you think that once you get that, you're like, oh man, I want to stay here. And you do, but then you've got those moments where you're like, everybody gets together and then somebody makes some spinach dip and then there's some chips there and you're like, here we go.

Allyn T. Goodrich (11:12.204)

Yeah, yeah. It's like that temptation is just, you know, that temptation is out there. But I mean, with the food stuff, you talked about kind of those pillars. You were talking about being at physical health, mental health, and the spiritual health. You know, the temptation for somebody just to slip in and eat guacamole chips or ice cream or cake or booze or whatever is just so great, right?

Vernon Phillips (11:39.04)

yeah.

Allyn T. Goodrich (11:40.49)

On the mental side of things, the things that affect people negatively on the mental side, being lazy and not conscious of that stuff is so easy to fall into, Well, on the spiritual side of things, it's interesting because not looking for purpose or not looking for meaning or not being grateful for your creator or whatever it is on the spiritual side of things, the absence of it is just as easy to be lazy on the absence of it as it is for somebody just to pick up a piece of cake.

Vernon Phillips (12:08.59)

Oh yeah. Well, and if we want to get, you know, cause there's somebody out there listening and it's just like, and I know what they're saying. They're like, that's cause you lack discipline. Right? I mean, yes, yes, you're right. Okay. The reason I have not given up potatoes is because, you know, I haven't disciplined myself to do that. I mean, there's other things that I've given up and completely just cut out and haven't had in years. Right? I made that decision. like, Hey, I'm not going to do it. And when I get to that point, I'll make that decision. Right.

And once I get through to a certain point, it'll be just by default. But you brought up something I want to kind of just touch on real quick. I wasn't planning on going this way, but we will. When we start talking about that discipline, whether it's the physical, whether it's with the mental aspects, or whether it's with the spiritual, all of that, there's those things that we can just kind of give a little bit. Give a little bit.

And then the next thing you know, you're kind of caught in this rut, right? And if we want to really kind of dive into the spiritual side, that's what happens, you know, with sin, right? We just kind of let our guard down, give a little bit, give a little bit. And then the next thing you know, six months, a year down the road, you're like, man, how did I get here? Like, what am I doing? And, you know, it's practicing those disciplines, whether it's, you know, physical disciplines, whether it's putting in those, you know, those mental aspect disciplines or the spiritual disciplines where we're like making sure we're doing things to keep ourselves where we need to be. And that's ultimately what it comes down to. So and I'm not knocking anybody that, you know, that says that because I know firsthand, that's what it comes down to. Right. It comes down to being disciplined and following through and, you know, and taking care of yourself. If you really want to invest in yourself, then you're going to be disciplined. Right. If you really want to take care of yourself and you want to have a, you know, longevity in your life. You want to have a healthy life. You just want to be able to you know, feel good and Go out and be able to do things You're gonna have to invest in yourself and you're gonna have to make those sacrifices. It's just

Allyn T. Goodrich (14:18.486)

Yeah, you were talking a lot about that discipline side of things and we could apply it to anything, but when we're talking about discipline, it's a conscious decision. You made a decision not to put something in your body years and years ago and you haven't since that took that conscious effort.

And on the mental health side, people make a conscious decision, I'm not going to do this because this affects me a certain way. On the nutrition side, I'm not going to eat this. On the wellness side, I'm not going to do that. On the spiritual side, regardless of what faith anyone belongs to, you can look at every major religion on the planet.

You know, even even agnostic folks who don't believe in anything and the overwhelming majority of organized religions or theology, whatever's out there, there's a few things that all of them have in common, right? Like kindness compassion, the golden rule, treating those how you would want to be treated and doing those things also is a conscious effort. We just don't do it naturally. Like naturally, you know, whatever, you know, not, not to get super religious here, but a natural man's an enemy to God, right? The natural man wants to sit on the couch, crack a beer, put your feet up and watch the game and do nothing else but that. get it. Cause

I've been there, right? We all want to just sit back, chill, relax, know, bring me a sandwich. Like the natural man's lazy. The natural man is selfish and thoughtless. And to do those things even on the spiritual side, if you want to talk about discipline, that takes a certain conscious effort. know, the reason I bring that up, excuse me, is because there's days where I go to work and I'm not in a good mood or...

Allyn T. Goodrich (16:06.774)

I don't want to be here or I forget perhaps how blessed and spoiled I am. And then I look at one of my best friends, I just look at my partner who's always in a good mood, he's always happy, he's always optimistic. I look at him and it's just an easy reminder of like, all right, I need to make this conscious effort to be nicer or kinder or thoughtful or harder working. And I just look at the examples that are around me and I make a conscious effort and I use that discipline, all right, I'm gonna try and be more like Mark today.

Vernon Phillips (16:11.266)

Yeah.

Vernon Phillips (16:36.14)

Yeah. And I think that's, you know, the thing is, is making that decision. mean, is, and I know that you said, Hey, I don't want to get too religious. I mean, I'm not worried about that. Right. so obviously, you know, we, we talk about it. We'll talk, we get into some conversations on the show, where people are very open, you know, and they want to talk about it. And some people, you know, they don't really have much of a faith aspect, so they don't talk about it. But, you know, for me, obviously, you know, I'm a believer, I'm a believer in Jesus. So what I do for myself is each and every day I want to live, you know, to glorify God. Like that's what I want to do. But you have to make that conscious decision, right? And to do that, you've got to wake up and you've got to die to yourself. You've got to die to those desires that are contrary to what are, you know, what God has in mind for us. And just like you said, I mean, that's the natural man or, know, like our sinfulness just wants to go and do what we want to do. But, you know, on the flip side of that, where does that lead us?

Allyn T. Goodrich (17:45.858)

ruts and laziness and

Vernon Phillips (17:46.094)

Yeah, we're gonna end up being broken and and you know and depressed and just searching for what we already know we need to be finding but So anyway, you know, we kind of go off on that tangent a little bit but

Allyn T. Goodrich (18:03.352)

It's perfectly fine. I don't mind going off on that tangent. I grew up a very, very religious oriented youth as a kid. served a mission for my church. I did everything I was supposed to do and then I had some struggles come my way and I found myself on the outside looking in. But I never lost my core values, my core beliefs, or even my testimony for that matter.

I remember when I was preparing to speak for that New Orleans event.

You know, I just couldn't help but have this thought in the back of my head how at the end of everything I was going to say on the stage, I needed to end it with my testimony. Now, you know, I struggled and wrestled with that thought because while I am Christian, I didn't want to sit there and say my testimony and offend everybody that was out there. But at the same time, like I just had this nagging thought in my head that I better not leave that stage without giving proper respect to why I was here. And so I remember I had a friend of mine in the gym, he's a pastor, of a different faith than I belonged to, but him and I were speaking and I told him, was like, man, I just feel like I got to do this, but I don't think it's appropriate. And he's like, brother, do it. He's like, just do it. And so I did. And it may not have hit really well, but when I got off the stage, I felt like that was the right thing to do.

Vernon Phillips (19:03.907)

Yeah.

Allyn T. Goodrich (19:25.316)

And so, you know, if I don't ever get invited back because I bore my testimony, you know, it is what it is, but I felt like this journey that I'm on, it's not my journey, it's his journey. And I'm just one lucky enough to be able to deliver the message.

Vernon Phillips (19:35.329)

yeah.

Yeah, no, absolutely. And I'm glad you did. mean, you I was there in New Orleans and you you kind of, you know, bring it all back to your faith and why, you know, why you are where you are. And I think that's important. I think that, you know, for us as, you know, as believers, as Christians, like that's important for us to acknowledge, you know, why we, you know, why we do what we do. Right. And it's not for myself. It's, you know, everything that I do.

Right? Like I said, I do to glorify God the Father. Right? Because of what Jesus has done for me, the least I can do is try to live my life each and every day for Him. And is it easy? No, it's not easy because we struggle. Like you said, we struggle with the natural man. We struggle with ourselves and our selfishness. But if we want to talk about, you know, even bring that into like the law enforcement realm, it's like, well, that's the same thing that we deal with, right? I mean, you get into law enforcement and things start to go well and you start to advance and getting different opportunities and promotions and right, that feeds who we are as carnal beings, as the natural person, that feeds ourself. And so the more that that happens and the more we promote ourselves and the more we do that, then the more we think we can handle things on our own.

I've got a lot of friends who are in law enforcement that are good solid believers and they're just like, man, I don't know. I just don't know how people who don't have faith navigate this job. like, it's not because this isn't a crutch for me, but this is what makes a lot of this bearable or make sense, right?

Allyn T. Goodrich (21:28.608)

You know, that's super interesting. said that because same thing. I do have those friends as well that use that as like that pillar of that rock of that foundation of like, I can handle all of this because of that. I felt like it was the opposite for me where I was like, how can all this be possible if this is, if this is real? And so I found myself kind of like, now that that's happened, I'm kind of like trying to come back to.

Vernon Phillips (21:50.862)

Yeah.

Allyn T. Goodrich (21:56.268)

being that person that I always admire, you know, I have lots of friends who really held strong in their faith. Whereas me, kind of looked around at all this stuff happening, like there's no way, how could this all be happening if this is really true? You know, if he loves us, why, why did that just happen? But that's interesting though, because those guys that I do have that are friends that always held onto that, I was kind of, kind of jealous, you know, how, how did, how were you able to hold onto that when I thought I could and I didn't?

Vernon Phillips (22:24.642)

Yeah, I think for a lot of them, myself included, it almost kind of gives you a piece when there's something that you can't explain and you're just like, man, I don't understand. And we could talk about this right, just in my agency, we've had several pediatric calls just in the last couple of weeks, right? And those are some of the worst ones, right? Where you're dealing with a toddler, three month old, less than 30 days old, right? And you're going to these calls and you're having to render life-saving measures. like, those are really crappy calls. And it's like, how do you make that make sense, right? How do you take that and you say, okay, if there is a God, if there is, and he's just and he's loving, then how does that make sense? And for me, I look at that as like, okay, well, I believe that God is sovereign. I believe that he's in control. believe that the things that happen, it's not a surprise to him.

And I can rest in that and I can find peace in that knowing like, I don't know what his plan is for this situation. I don't know why this family's having to go through this. I don't know why this deputy is the one that is doing CPR on a three week old. But what I can know is that this is not a surprise to God. that his thoughts are higher than my thoughts, his ways are higher.

I can't explain that, right? But I can rest in the fact that he knows exactly what he's doing. And if you leave it up to me, I'm probably gonna mess it up, right? So for me, that's what I always draw back on the fact that it's like, you know what? I'm gonna find peace and reassurance in the fact that I serve a mighty God despite that I don't understand, you know,

Some of this, I don't understand why this has happened, but I understand that he is faithful, that he is sovereign, he's in control, and that I can rest in that. And some people, like I said, some people look at that as a crutch, but do I look at it? No, that's a foundational part of who I am.

Allyn T. Goodrich (24:40.034)

Well, maybe not so much as a crutch, I mean, it's, tough to understand and, and, you know, being on those calls or those terrible things where you, can't explain it, but knowing that it is part of some plan, whether we like it or disagree with her or not, having that faith that is part of that plan. Sometimes that can be impossible, but I like to maybe look at your kids, you know, and when they were little and they go to run out across the street and you're like, Hey, don't do that. You yelled on real quick and they look at you like you're crazy.

And then the car goes by and then they see the plan, right? But at that moment when you're like, no, don't run out there in front of the road. And then they stop, they look back at you. They may not understand. They don't know why they just listened and look back at you. They don't have to understand the picture and they may not. Like they may never even see the car that drove by. And that's maybe with us, maybe to a simpler degree, but we may not understand how this is a part of the plan. And you just got to understand that it is so.

Just have faith that we'll wake up the next day and learn again.

Vernon Phillips (25:41.026)

Yeah. So I know we've kind of jumped around a little bit and we kind of, no, no, you're good, you're good. No, we dived into kind of that spiritual aspect, which is good. But when you look at law enforcement today and with lot of the stuff we talked about, do you think we do a good job onboarding those just coming into the profession, just taking care of their physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual wellbeing?

Allyn T. Goodrich (25:45.078)

Yeah, sorry about that.

Allyn T. Goodrich (26:05.9)

Well, I I work for one of the largest agencies in the country with one of the largest budgets known to man. And we're very, very, very, very spoiled. I look at the training facilities we have, the academy that they undergo. I don't know if anyone can do it better than us. That being said, I still don't know if it can adequately prepare anyone for this job.

You know, there are just things that you can't train. You can't teach. You just have to experience. So I would say that as far as my department goes, I don't think anyone can possibly do it better than us. But how can you prepare somebody for some of the things that you're going to see? You just can't. Prior life experience helps for some folks. But when you're 21 years old and this is your first career, there are some things that are going to shock you. And there are some things that and like I said, you can't prepare for certain things, but life experience may. So you take a kid who's grown up in a really rough neighborhood, experience, you know, aunts and uncles and dads and moms going to jail or having drugs in the house all the time and they find themselves getting out of that or they've been to school and experienced violence. They may be able to handle some of the stuff once they get out onto the street very well.

take a kid who's been sheltered his whole life, who's gone to private schools and mom and dad have provided for everything for him and life has been good. They lived in a upper middle-class neighborhood. They go into the academy and then they experience their first double homicide. That person's going to react a lot differently. So you could train as best as you can, but no, I think some of the mental stuff and the mental aspect of the profession, don't think there's, can, you can inform people and you can prepare them as best as you can, but.

Vernon Phillips (27:33.923)

Yeah.

Allyn T. Goodrich (27:50.782)

there's not much you can do on the academy side more than they're doing at least if there is i don't know what the answer would be but i don't know if there's adequate training that could be had

Vernon Phillips (27:59.662)

Yeah. No, and I think that's kind of pretty much the consensus I think across the board is most places feel like their agencies are doing the best that they can. But at the same time, it's like you can't prepare somebody for every encounter that they're gonna have. just not feasible, it's not possible. But when you look at, go ahead, sorry.

Allyn T. Goodrich (28:25.814)

I was going to say, mean, on the preparation side of it, I don't know if there can be anything done better than what's been doing right now or what they are doing right now. But I can say like on the aftermath side of things, our department recently created a whole wellness bureau. It's an entire bureau just based off of wellness. So mental, physical, spiritual.

And they have every resource you could ever think of. And they're very conscious of certain things, certain situations, certain people, certain events. And they're really looking at it really hard these days. And I think on that aspect of things, our department is kind of leading the way on how to take care of folks. And so I don't know the exact numbers right now, but I would, I'm pretty sure since we've had our wellness unit, we haven't had one officer take their own lives by suicide.

Vernon Phillips (28:49.614)

Yeah

Allyn T. Goodrich (29:16.738)

So going forward, dealing with the aftermath of having been in certain areas, I think they're doing a really good job.

Vernon Phillips (29:16.942)

That's awesome.

Vernon Phillips (29:24.322)

Yeah, no, that's awesome. And I'm glad to hear that. I think that that's what a lot of agencies do need is they need something in place, right? Or a division, a bureau, whatever, that's taking on that whole aspect, that's taking on the wellness initiative for the agency or the department they serve and really diving into that and making sure that they're doing the best they can for their people. think that's huge.

As we kind of transition a little bit, so for yourself, when you look back over your 20 years and you think about the different things, the different calls service you've been on, is there a particular call that stands out to you that was kind of one of those harder calls? But then what did you do to kind of get on the other side of that? Because that's...

Allyn T. Goodrich (30:18.075)

That's a really, really... That's a deep one. I do have one specifically, but... And I apologize if I cut you off. Have you ever heard of a guy named Lieutenant Brian Murphy? So he was a lieutenant in Wisconsin and he was involved in that Sikh temple active shooter where 14 people were killed and he was... Or I'm sorry. 14 people were killed and he was shot... Oh no.

Vernon Phillips (30:27.106)

So you're good.

Vernon Phillips (30:32.909)

I am not.

Allyn T. Goodrich (30:44.44)

can't remember how many people were killed. A lot of people were killed, but he was shot 14 times. And so he holds a record of having been shot in the most and survived of any law enforcement ever. I mean, I'm talking the face, throat, back of the head, body. He was basically stood over and executed. Brian's a good friend of mine, and I've met him through mutual friends over the years, kind of doing this kind of stuff.

Vernon Phillips (30:48.749)

Oof.

Allyn T. Goodrich (31:08.298)

And Brian always explained to me about, you know, some people describe it as a backpack. Brian described this as like he holds a case and every call he kind of just like puts a pebble inside of the case. Right. Well, Brian's learned that he does carry this case. It's a part of his life. And what he does is he learned to put a lid on it so that no other pebbles can come inside. Now one rock may be big enough to smash the case and you have to put a new one on there, but in general, he just learned to manage it. Right.

Well, I felt like I had that where I was carrying this case and over the years you're just like, that sucks, that sucks, that sucks, that sucks. And then I did have one where, you know, bigger, smaller, whatever it was, I put it inside there and I just lost it. And my personal life went down downhill real quick. and I'm not afraid to talk about it. You know, I was involved in a hostage rescue where I was the first guy through the door and, I was presented with a problem on a hostage rescue and I took a young man's life. Now.

Vernon Phillips (31:50.84)

Yeah.

Allyn T. Goodrich (32:07.38)

what I did, I'm, you know, you would align thousand guys up in my shoes and they would have all done the same thing. There was no question about the, you know, was the shoe good or bad. And I never went through any kind of headaches administratively because of a questionable shoot. was pretty cut and dry. all on my body camera and, and, and that wasn't the first shooting that I had been involved with. It was one of many, but for some reason that was just the one where I put that pebble in and it just fell right out and I dropped the case unknowingly, I guess, you I just hit my breaking point and I came home and was on my, you know, normal administrative leave and I just found myself, you know, turning to the bottle and drinking myself to death basically. you know, ignoring all the obligations of being a father, a husband, friend, you know, a son, I just lost myself in alcohol. And, you know, when I eventually came back to work, was, it was a blessing coming back to work because we're on call so much. can't drink. There's, no alcohol involved in our jobs, but I'd already set that foundation of how to like take care of my problems. So the weekend would come along and I'd be like, yep, let's go. And I would be in my bed dealing with my demons in my head and I would sober up and I'd go back to work and I'd wait to do it all over again on the weekend. I was just in the cycle and every possible box you could check on the, you know, screwed up list. I had checked it and, one of my friends really recognized that I was falling apart and he basically, basically he's the one that kind of, encouraged me to start journaling because I was going to church. was working out. was talking to doctors. was spending time with the family. was doing everything that everybody thought would help somebody in my position, but it wasn't helping me. so journaling became sort of a.

Allyn T. Goodrich (34:07.266)

therapeutic session for me and I found really quickly that when I would start journaling as opposed to drinking it did better for my spirit and did better for my brain but I was able to recognize that that was my thing and so I became you know almost obsessed with when those dark moments would start to come on I would grab my laptop and start typing as opposed to drinking and I'm not saying I didn't still drink I had a drink here and there but but it didn't become my my outlet where putting my stories did and

Vernon Phillips (34:32.237)

Yeah.

Allyn T. Goodrich (34:36.288)

Yeah, and I'm not saying that everybody should learn how to journal and it's gonna solve everyone's problems. I'm just saying that it helped me and so once I recognized that this was my thing I realized also that it's not everybody else's thing but now I can help.

other people sort of, guide people towards something that will help them. And it may be like they're lacking a spiritual aspect. Let's go to church and they find Jesus, or it may be this person doesn't go to the gym at all. And now they're obsessed with being physically fit or, or somebody is really neglecting their spouse or family. And now they really focus on that, whatever it is for these people. Now I kind of just want to take people by the shoulders and say, try this out. Like someone did to me. And that's kind of really been my mission is I really want people to just find

their thing.

Vernon Phillips (35:23.554)

Yeah. No, that's, and thank you for sharing that. I know you said that, you know, that you're open to sharing that and, probably kind of threw that at you from the side, but, you handled it great. So I appreciate it. No, but the good thing is like, you'd say, Hey, yeah, this is, this is what it was. And then this is where I was, but then this is what I did to get beyond, you know, I didn't stay there, right? You didn't stay in that, in that state where, you know, you were using alcohol just to drown all that out that, know, somebody did step into your life and they presented you with some resources and you took it, right? And you figured out what worked for you and you utilize that and you just kind of continue to press forward, right? And I think that's what's important. And that's why I generally ask that question. So it's like other people who, you are maybe kind of in that place where you were, where they're just like, man, I don't, what's the way out, right?

What's the alternative other than, you just drinking myself to sleep every night or, you know, or fill in the blank with whatever it is they're doing. And but it gives them the opportunity like, hey, look, somebody else was there and they put in the effort and, you know, they're better than where they were. So.

Allyn T. Goodrich (36:43.576)

We see all kinds of people, but when you're talking about those folks that are looking for something, they're receptive to change because they're just grasping at empty air, hoping that something will catch those people are really easy to say, try this, try this, try this, nope, nope, nope, nope. But they're looking, right? For me, I wasn't looking. Somebody looked at me. So for me, being lucky enough to have a mentor who recognized it and then me being receptive to his thoughts and ideas, I was lucky. But we all have friends that weren't so lucky.

So now there's kind of a double edged sword. like, yeah, I want to help people, but if they don't want to be helped, I can't. But also if I can be in a position in somebody's life where that my opinion would matter to this person, then they would actually listen to me. So now I'm really conscious about my relationships with people. it a one-sided relationship? Am I trying to just get something out of them? Or do I actually value the person?

And I think if I'm more genuine with my interactions with even just my coworkers, if I actually care about their families or care about their day and how are they doing, and they can see that I'm actually genuine in my thoughts and I'm not just trying to be their friend because I need something from them, then if I'm ever in a position to offer advice, then it will actually mean something as opposed to just getting an open-ended advice from somebody you don't care about. It's in one ear and out the other.

Vernon Phillips (38:09.666)

Yeah. Yeah, no, I think that's important. So.

So when you take all that and you look at what you've been through and how somebody stepped in and helped you, what is some advice that you'd give somebody just starting out? They're just finishing up the academy, getting ready to go through FTO or they've finished FTO and now they're out on their own. What is a piece of advice that you'd give them?

Allyn T. Goodrich (38:38.658)

Don't be afraid of making mistakes.

Allyn T. Goodrich (38:43.624)

You get in trouble at work a lot. There's a policy manual about this big. There's a set of laws for the city you work in about this big. There's a set of state ordinances about this big. There's a bunch of federal laws. You're going to screw up. You're going to violate some policies. going to screw up. When it happens, just understand that's part of the process. It's no different than when a kid's learning how to walk, they fall on their face. So don't be afraid of screwing up. When we train in the tactical world, when we get a chance, we train it. And we're hard on our critiques. And when I first got into the unit, being a team member, taking critique was extremely difficult.

Sitting there having somebody criticize your every move. you turned left. You should have turned right or you didn't quite look down this hallway enough. It was very hard to sit around in a debrief and get picked apart on every single angle. But once you start to learn that the reason for it is it's not because you know, they're trying to make you look less of a person. They're trying to make the unit better. So when I was finally able to understand that this is about making me a better person, the process of screwing up that I screw up in training, I don't do it in real life.

So a new guy going out on the street, you're going to get into trouble. You're going to make some mistakes. You're going to screw up some reports. You're going to screw up some arrests. Screw it up and do it well and then realize the mistake you did and then don't do it again.

Vernon Phillips (40:15.502)

Yeah, no, that's good advice. And then what about those guys who are, you know, 15, 20, 25 plus years in?

Allyn T. Goodrich (40:24.28)

Well, I'm one of them, so I don't want to sound like it's the hot call in the kettle black, but you know, don't. All right, so I kind of got one little. You got a second for one little story? OK. Well, before I was in SWAT, I was in our intelligence section. And so I had a big beard and I had long hair and and I wore like cargo shorts and t-shirts to work and and, you know, tennis shoes. And I had a take home car with free gas and.

Vernon Phillips (40:34.625)

Yeah, let's go. Yeah.

Allyn T. Goodrich (40:50.034)

know, I wasn't even really on the phone for call out per se, but you know, I was lucky enough to have a car with free gas. I got paid really well. I wore a freaking t-shirt to work every day. I could grow my hair out like a mangy maniac. And I remember one time I was walking through our headquarter building, a big old, you know, five story building and, I ran into one of my really good friends who, so he was this, he was a Sergeant of mine long time ago, promoted Lieutenant, promoted Captain, Deputy Chief, Undersheriff, Assistant Sheriff. So now he's like the second guy in line of the entire organization. But him and I had a good friendship off of our past work experience and, and he's like, Hey, how are you doing? And, and so I just started to kind of complain to him. You know, I'm like, I have to do this for my boss and I have to do this detail. And this is so dumb. I can't believe they're having us do this. And I go on and on and on. I'm just venting, right?

like anybody would to a friend and he just sat there and he nodded his head and he listened and he listened and he listened he's like come with me so we go into the parking garage and we go up to the elevator and on the top floor of the parking garage they were doing the physical fitness test for all the people who are like testing for the police department you know they're doing their push-ups the vertical jump the sit-ups all that stuff and I'm watching these recruits run around and around and around. They're standing in line, you know, so scared and so eager because all they want to do is just get the job. Right. And he didn't say a word. He just looked at them and he looked at me. He looked at them and he looked at me. He looked at them. He looked at me and I'm like, all right, like message received, dude. Stop complaining. Right. And that's all he did is he just showed like, did you forget where you came from? Did you forget how bad you wanted this job?

Vernon Phillips (42:25.068)

Yeah.

Allyn T. Goodrich (42:28.064)

So for those 15, 20, 25 year guys of which I'm a part of, it's easy to come into work and be like, this boss is a jerk. I can't believe they have me do this detail. But all of that is because we forgot about what it felt like the day they put that badge on our chest. I remember the very first day I got in my very first SWAT truck, and I got an old hand-me-down.

POS that was almost mild out smelled like cigar smoke. It was disgusting, but it was my first SWAT truck and I was so excited I would I would have driven anything and I was so excited and I never forget I try and always look back on those days and try and don't forget the feeling of how bad you wanted this job Why did you originally sign up for it?

And we lose track of that around that 15, 20, 25 year mark. And we start looking to retirement. We start looking to how much money am going to make in my next job after this? But we forget about that simple nobility of the profession. When we were all new in the academy, they said, why are you here? And it's because I want to protect and I want to serve. Protect and I want to serve. And we forget about that. It all becomes about me, me, me, me, me. And we forget about protecting. We forget about serving.

Vernon Phillips (43:13.292)

Yeah.

Vernon Phillips (43:35.97)

Yeah. No, that's a great point. I I think there's a lot of people when they start getting, you know, midway through or towards the end, you know, it's almost like they kind of lose that purpose, right? Or that drive that first got them into the profession. And I think it's a good reminder to, remember like, remember why you got into this and hold onto that and maintain that. think that's a great point to make.

Allyn T. Goodrich (44:03.99)

Yeah, makes things a lot easier. Makes things a lot easier to swallow when you're having to sit on a certain detail that you're not really happy about or they could have got some junior guy to do it. Why are they making me do it? I'm the senior guy. Dude, just serve. Just serve.

Vernon Phillips (44:16.91)

Yeah. So I mean, obviously a lot of things has changed for you here in the last several years. So you said you've, you know, you've written a couple of books and, um, you know, you're kind of doing some speaking engagements. So, uh, why don't you go tell us about like, you know, the books you've written.

Allyn T. Goodrich (44:33.09)

Well, I've published the one. I have two others that are done, and I don't feel it's the correct time to publish right now. But that journey has been its own handful and mess. But long story short, I didn't want to do it. I didn't want to do it under my name. I was kind of talked into it by another author, and it ended up doing really well. Ended up making bestseller lists and ended up just selling like crazy. And so we donated all that money to the Wounded Blue, the charity.

Vernon Phillips (44:35.2)

Okay.

Allyn T. Goodrich (45:01.176)

because I just didn't feel like it was appropriate to take the money for telling stories that didn't necessarily belong to me. But I never thought I'd be an author. I never thought I'd be a speaker. It was never in the cards. It was never something that I wanted to do. was never something that I thought I would ever do. it it started happening and it kind of feels like I'm on a train that I can't get off of. And so now the more I do it and the more I, the more it's happening. And so my other two books I have already pretty much done.

I don't want to release them yet because I won't even get into why but I just don't feel like it's the right time. But all these doors that are...

You know, it kind of goes back to that spiritual aspect, all these doors that are opening and all these directions I'm going, I don't feel like I deserve it. don't feel like I'm the best guy for it. I don't feel like I'm even the most qualified for some freaking weird reason is happening to me. And it's kind of like, it goes back to that spiritual thing. It's like, I didn't deserve it. And I'm not the best guy for the job, but some, for some reason I was picked and I got to be his mouthpiece. So if I can get out there and one person in that crowd, and it was a big crowd in New Orleans, I was shocked.

Vernon Phillips (46:04.524)

Yeah.

Allyn T. Goodrich (46:09.482)

If one thing I said in that room affected one person in a way, like let's just say on the mental health side, if I said one thing to somebody in there that made sense to them and helped them out, they're going to remember it forever, then that whole trip was worth it. So now I just kind of feel like I'm a mouthpiece and all this stuff's out of my control and I'm not in control. I'm just along for the ride. And as long as he wants me to do what I'm doing, he'll afford me these opportunities.

Vernon Phillips (46:34.926)

Yeah, absolutely. mean, we've already kind of talked about it and we've been, you know, we're bouncing around earlier, but, you know, how much has your faith played into a factor of where you're at today?

Allyn T. Goodrich (46:48.972)

Hmm.

I think it's a journey. you know, like I said, I grew up very, very religious, definitely lost my way. And now I'm, I'm trying to find my way back. Maybe not on, maybe not as far as like organized religion is concerned, but the core principles of what I believe in, what it's all about, if that makes sense. So I'm really trying to be more focused on that aspect of things. Well, it's not, I may not, you know, practice the letter per se of an organized religion. I'm really just focused on living a better life and being a kinder person and more Christ-like individual.

Vernon Phillips (47:26.636)

Yeah. So if somebody wants to get in contact with you or, or, you know, reach out to you to have you speak or they want to know more information about your book, how would they do that?

Allyn T. Goodrich (47:37.932)

Well, the book is October Strong. It's available on Amazon. And to this day, we're still donating every single red cent to the Wounded Blue. I've not taken a dime for it, and I'll continue to do that. So if they want to support the Wounded Blue or even support me, they can get October Strong on Amazon. It's Barnes and Nobles and everywhere else, but Amazon really does the best job of delivering and that kind of stuff. I'm pretty active on LinkedIn, and it's Alan T. Goodrich Jr. and the other social medias I'm on there as well but it's not it's more like kind of just updates on what's going on in my life but my meaningful writing is done on LinkedIn.

Vernon Phillips (48:14.894)

Okay. And what I'll do is I'll put the link in for the book to Amazon and then also your LinkedIn in the show notes. So, but Alan, I appreciate you coming on. I appreciate the time you took just to sit down and have a conversation. I appreciate the work that you're doing and thank you, Yep.

Allyn T. Goodrich (48:22.904)

Appreciate that.

Allyn T. Goodrich (48:33.912)

Thank you Vernon it's been awesome.